Making a video from a choir

kirsten-v wrote on 5/1/2020, 1:47 PM

Hello,

I also want to ask my question here. I'm pretty new with Vegas pro. I just made a few video's. One off them gave me some trobble with vegas. I was making a video with 13 video's of the people of my choir. They were MP4. Eventualy I got it but Vegas did not like it and all off what I had to do took al lot of time waiting. It took me weeks to finish. Now I'm asked to do this for my whole choir about 75 voices. I'm almost afraid to start. 🙈 What can I do so vegas will keep on working with that much video's. My thought was to make serveral video's and put them together. But is there something I have to consider? How would you guys go about it. I looked on youtube for an example of wat I want to do. Thanks guys.




I'm working with vegas pro 15 on windows 10.

I did use video's that were send to me with what's app. Could that be the problem? I made them all the same before starting.

 

Comments

Musicvid wrote on 5/1/2020, 2:18 PM

First, tell us about your videos, and your Vegas version and build number.

https://www.vegascreativesoftware.info/us/forum/faq-how-to-post-mediainfo-and-vegas-pro-file-properties--104561/

kirsten-v wrote on 5/1/2020, 3:03 PM

Vegas 15 pro build 416

The video's are 352x640 rate 30

I have not started the new video because I want to be prepared.

michael-harrison wrote on 5/1/2020, 3:22 PM

Also, give us your
system specs
How much ram is in use when you open your current project
How much ram is in use when you play/preview the project

kirsten-v wrote on 5/1/2020, 4:03 PM

Oh my, were can I see that. There is no project yet. I can look in the old project. The choir members need to record there video's. I also hope that I can advice the how to record and the best way to send them to me. I'm not sure if it makes a differens. I believe most off the will record with there smartphone.

I guess I'm going to use a differend size than I used in the last video. So no 352x640.

set wrote on 5/1/2020, 5:07 PM

Try convert the sources to Magix Intermediate first (ProRes format). This workflow said can help become more stable.

(Based on other Vegas Pro user who did the same online choir project and share it 2 weeks ago.)

*replace mistaken link

TheRhino wrote on 5/1/2020, 5:34 PM

I'm about to donate a similar project for some teachers but I can't find one of my old templates that had the grid... Can someone provide a link to a template / grid FX that provides 36 squares?

The last time I did something like this was over 10 years ago & I recorded all of the video, but this time it will be limited to the quality I get from everyone's webcams... I intend to convert them to an intermediate that doesn't require a lot of CPU / GPU and since they are playing from a very fast M.2 RAID0, I shouldn't have any hardware issues. It's always cool to test-out your system on a project like this, especially if you are donating your time...

Workstation D with $1,350 USD of upgrades in April, 2019
--$500 9900K @ 5.0ghz
--$140 Corsair H150i liquid cooling with 360mm radiator (3 fans)
--$200 open box Asus Z390 WS (PLX chip manages 4/5 PCIe slots)
--$160 32GB of G.Skill DDR4 3000
--$350 refurbished, but like-new Radeon Vega 64 LQ (liquid cooled)

Renders Vegas11 "Red Car Test" (AMD VCE) in 13s when clocked at 4.9 ghz
(note: BOTH onboard Intel & Vega64 show utilization during QSV & VCE renders...)

Source Video1 = 4TB RAID0--(2) 2TB M.2 on motherboard in RAID0
Source Video2 = 4TB RAID0--(2) 2TB M.2 (1) via U.2 adapter & (1) on separate PCIe card
Target Video1 = 16TB RAID10--(4) 8TB SATA hot-swap drives on PCIe RAID10 card

10G Network using used $30 Mellanox2 Adapters & new $135 10G Switch
Copy of Work Files, Source & Output Video, OS Images on QNAP 653b NAS
Blackmagic Decklink PCie card for capturing from tape, etc.
(2) internal BR Burners connected via USB 3.0 to SATA adapters
Old Cooler Master CM Stacker ATX case with (13) 5.25" front drive-bays holds & cools everything.

Workstations A, B & C are older 6-core 4.0ghz Xeon 5660 or I7 980x on Asus P6T6 motherboards.

$999 Walmart Evoo 17 Laptop with I7-9750H 6-core CPU, RTX 2060, (2) M.2 bays & (1) SSD bay...

JackW wrote on 5/1/2020, 6:22 PM

I don't use Photoshop but I believe there is a template there that will do what's needed.

john_dennis wrote on 5/1/2020, 7:31 PM

@TheRhino @kirsten-v

Here is a project that began as an animated picture wall that looked like this:

I reworked it to include 12 videos in a 4 wide by 3 high configuration on a main panel. The individual videos are nested in projects Picture001M.veg through Picture012M.veg. You'll have to replace the current temporary video with your own. The aspect ratio and size of the individual videos are controlled in the nested projects with Pan/Crop.

The location in the main project (Twelve Videos (4x3) 1920x1080.veg) is controlled by Track Motion. That will give to the opportunity to solo a video from the main track. One of these projects will never be exactly what you need, but I trust you can use this as a place to start.

Download From Here:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1avFaHOL1cRwnOQnRi4AqVpWlNtlsJf5D/view?usp=sharing

In its current form, it looks like this:

Musicvid wrote on 5/1/2020, 7:40 PM

The video's are 352x640 rate 30

I don't think so. That sounds like something you made. I want you to take one of your original camera video, not something you made "all the same"and follow the directions already given.


Once again, Kirsten, can you download MediaInfo and provide me with the statistics I asked for? We need to follow exact directions in order to get this done.

https://www.vegascreativesoftware.info/us/forum/faq-how-to-post-mediainfo-and-vegas-pro-file-properties--104561/

 

john_dennis wrote on 5/1/2020, 7:47 PM

"Now I'm asked to do this for my whole choir about 75 voices."

I would pick a smaller number of video windows and cycle each performer through the spotlight during the song. I'd only use a number like 75 at the end or for a thumbnail.

TheRhino wrote on 5/1/2020, 9:24 PM

@john_dennis Thanks! That gives me a great place to start even if I add another column & row by scooting over the frames... I'll probably end-up with 20 at once. Unlike a choir, my teachers do not have to be seen all at once. They are just going to zoom to the center when it is their turn to speak their message to the kids...

I assume you are using pre-recorded audio of the entire choir & they are lip syncing, right? I can't imagine getting the audio correct if you have to sync 75 tracks of audio from various sources with various quality & background noise!

Workstation D with $1,350 USD of upgrades in April, 2019
--$500 9900K @ 5.0ghz
--$140 Corsair H150i liquid cooling with 360mm radiator (3 fans)
--$200 open box Asus Z390 WS (PLX chip manages 4/5 PCIe slots)
--$160 32GB of G.Skill DDR4 3000
--$350 refurbished, but like-new Radeon Vega 64 LQ (liquid cooled)

Renders Vegas11 "Red Car Test" (AMD VCE) in 13s when clocked at 4.9 ghz
(note: BOTH onboard Intel & Vega64 show utilization during QSV & VCE renders...)

Source Video1 = 4TB RAID0--(2) 2TB M.2 on motherboard in RAID0
Source Video2 = 4TB RAID0--(2) 2TB M.2 (1) via U.2 adapter & (1) on separate PCIe card
Target Video1 = 16TB RAID10--(4) 8TB SATA hot-swap drives on PCIe RAID10 card

10G Network using used $30 Mellanox2 Adapters & new $135 10G Switch
Copy of Work Files, Source & Output Video, OS Images on QNAP 653b NAS
Blackmagic Decklink PCie card for capturing from tape, etc.
(2) internal BR Burners connected via USB 3.0 to SATA adapters
Old Cooler Master CM Stacker ATX case with (13) 5.25" front drive-bays holds & cools everything.

Workstations A, B & C are older 6-core 4.0ghz Xeon 5660 or I7 980x on Asus P6T6 motherboards.

$999 Walmart Evoo 17 Laptop with I7-9750H 6-core CPU, RTX 2060, (2) M.2 bays & (1) SSD bay...

Howard-Vigorita wrote on 5/1/2020, 10:45 PM

@TheRhino I assume you are using pre-recorded audio of the entire choir & they are lip syncing, right? I can't imagine getting the audio correct if you have to sync 75 tracks of audio from various sources with various quality & background noise!

Never done a video like this myself before but it sounds very interesting. I think I would pre-record the audio with a few stick-taps up front and ask everyone to include the clicks with the sound track they make of themselves and see if I could get them all to plug in earphones once the clicks are down. Then envelope it all in post. Been pondering if pip fx might be better. Would make it easier laying it all out, sizing, and dragging on the preview with the mouse. But if you're going to fly them about as they sing, track motion's probably better at that. Regarding resolution, I wouldn't go beyond the largest number of pixels they'll ever occupy on screen.

Last changed by Howard-Vigorita on 5/1/2020, 10:59 PM, changed a total of 4 times.

Cameras: Canon XF305, JVC GV-LS2, Canon 6D w/L-glass line. (Mar 2020: testing Zcam E2)
Laptop: Dell XPS15-9570; i7-8750h 32gb (integrated Intel UHD-630 & Nvidia GTX-1050Ti)
Road: Intel NUC i7 8809g 32gb (integrated AMD VegaM 4gb graphics and Intel HD630)
Workstation: i9 9900k 32 gb (Sapphire AMD Radeon VII 16gb graphics and integrated Intel UHD630)
Workstation2: e5 1650v4 128 gb (Sapphire Nitro+ Vega64 8gb graphics)
Workstation3: i7-980X 24gb (Sapphire Nitro+ RX5700xt Navi 8gb graphics)
currently Vegas 17.452

fred-w wrote on 5/1/2020, 11:00 PM

As a choir director myself for many years, I think you'd want to grab videos of you best singers first, I'd say your top two singers from each section (SATB) and get those to sync with each other, time wise and musically,

and this becomes like a template master track for all others to line up with. I would not render but would save that as a project file called Master Track, for example.

Start a new project - import the Master Track project as a nested project.

Then I would take EACH singer of the other sixty seven or so, and ONE BY ONE, work out sync and level issues, working in relation to the master track as a guide. This is primarily an exercise in syncing audio. If a singer is off, pitch wise, wrong lyrics, etc. mute or lower that section. Timing wise, work phrase by phrase mostly (word by word if you have to).

Dont' worry, immediately about layout of video. You can work section by section, as it's own project or place the four (or more) sections each its own track group that you can hide, mute. You will really be working with all tracks muted except the master and the one your working with, then take it maybe a few singers at a time, then the section. THIS IS ALL JUST THE AUDIO part. The individual (or a few) video can be playing, but your focus is audio at this point.

You can save sections as project files, bring them back into a master project - maybe fill a screen with each section, save it as it's own project - bring it back into the master and shrink it to one quadrant....There are many ways you can work the visual layout as far as managing the project.

I think the important thing is DO this project in chunks. Then those become pieces in a larger whole.
Some where along this process, you can also re-insert your original "best singers" back into his/her

natural section position, if that would be important. You'd only need their video, at that point, you'd already have

the audio pre mixed, (master guide track) unless you'd want a doubling of better singers voices.

So, these are just some ideas.




 

kirsten-v wrote on 5/2/2020, 1:56 AM

Thank you all for so much reactions. As you all explain is how I worked with the 13 person video. But Vega stopt working when I used more video's together it lapped (or how do you cal it) also the preview didn't work any more. It started with thad with a bout 5 or 6 video's. I have no problems to get the audio right. That the preview stops working is not workable. I have to render little pices to see my work. I will see if I can put the info of my 13 people video here of a part were I put all the video's together. For the new video I have not recieved the video's yet. But how it worked with this video I can't see how I can get it to work for so many more video's.

Dexcon wrote on 5/2/2020, 2:21 AM

But how it worked with this video I can't see how I can get it to work for so many more video's.

One approach is to create the picture grid with the first 12 singers and render it off. Then do another grid with the next 12 singers and render that off; and so on until all the singers are included over a number of different grid renders.

Then create a final grid project using the renders of the smaller groups.

As an example, if you had 96 singers, you could have 12 small grid projects each with 8 different singers; and the final grid would then consist of a grid of 12 windows, each window populated with a different render featuring 8 singers.

As your project is for around 75 singers, you will need to plan about how to lay each grid out. If you did this based on 12 different grids - as per the example give above by john_dennis, which makes sense from a 16:9 layout point-of-view, you could either include some singers twice to fill the grid to 96 overall, or use colors or photos of the choir, the town etc randomly in 21 windows to make up the grid to 96.

A fun project I think. Enjoy it.

 

kirsten-v wrote on 5/2/2020, 3:16 AM

Yes exacly, but vegas gives me alot off witing time just by doing any thing watching the preview, or changing something. So the main question is what am I doing to make it work so slow. Later to day I can put all the program info here. I made 2 video's in vegas, I will put thrm on youtube and put the link here. Thanks everybody.

Howard-Vigorita wrote on 5/2/2020, 3:22 AM

Had to take a crack at this myself. Slapped together a 28-cell grid of 4x3 portraits with the whole grid in 4x3 landscape. Decided to try doing it with the picture-in-picture FX included with v17... I understand it's gpu-assisted which maybe helps. Threw in a little animation and realized you can't fly around without doing something about cells on tracks above the one being animated. So I also animated the opacity of any neighbors blocking the view. Anyway, here's a short render:

The Vegas 17 project file and the one video source is here.

Last changed by Howard-Vigorita on 5/2/2020, 3:28 AM, changed a total of 1 times.

Cameras: Canon XF305, JVC GV-LS2, Canon 6D w/L-glass line. (Mar 2020: testing Zcam E2)
Laptop: Dell XPS15-9570; i7-8750h 32gb (integrated Intel UHD-630 & Nvidia GTX-1050Ti)
Road: Intel NUC i7 8809g 32gb (integrated AMD VegaM 4gb graphics and Intel HD630)
Workstation: i9 9900k 32 gb (Sapphire AMD Radeon VII 16gb graphics and integrated Intel UHD630)
Workstation2: e5 1650v4 128 gb (Sapphire Nitro+ Vega64 8gb graphics)
Workstation3: i7-980X 24gb (Sapphire Nitro+ RX5700xt Navi 8gb graphics)
currently Vegas 17.452

kirsten-v wrote on 5/2/2020, 3:46 AM

That looks like what I want to creat. Did you use all different video? Because I can't get that so quicly with vegas, with al different video's

 

This is the thirst video I made. Eventualy I use one video most of the time. The choruses took me so long I didn't think I could finish this video. I took me over 80 hours to create. But non the less, I learned a lot.

The next video took me about 1 hour and gave me no problems at all. There are less video's used.

I will look ad were I can find the info of vegas whish is asked for en put it on later to day.

 

 

adimatis wrote on 5/2/2020, 5:01 AM

I also did a project similar last week. It is quite popular in these times of isolation it seems. :)

It is a shame there are no Vegas presents for something like this, so everything has to be done by-hand. But it pays off.

I would also say you should try to split your clip and work with less at once, not all 75... That will be basically a killer.

In my clip I did not have to use picture in picture, as there were really only few tracks, but I think P-i-P will be of help.

3POINT wrote on 5/2/2020, 5:45 AM

PIPfx wasn't part of Vegaspro15, was introduced in VegasPro16. The only option to make PIP in Vegaspro15 is Trackmotion.

kirsten-v wrote on 5/2/2020, 5:53 AM

In my last video I worked with trackmotion to.

Dexcon wrote on 5/2/2020, 5:57 AM

In their Elements package, NewBlueFX have a Picture Grid FX which allows for up to 64 windows. Of course, this could be used with 2 different processes and combined on the timeline in much the same way as I suggested in another comment earlier.

It will still be a lot or work because this FX needs to be used on each video event and the position made for each video event. Also, 64 video events means 64 tracks with all events aligned.

Dexcon wrote on 5/2/2020, 7:25 AM

@kirsten-v … with the 3rd YT example (Down by the River) that you lodged in your original post, follow the link just below the video which is a how do I do this?

https://delraestudios.lpages.co/i-can-virtual-choir-and-so-can-you/

The creator said it took 100 hours using the Adobe Creative Suite, but the creator acknowledged that it could be done on any NLE that allows layering of videos. Lots of other Q&As on how it was done.

BTW, the current project I'm working on is now in the 400+ hrs range - probably 200 more hrs to go.

Musicvid wrote on 5/2/2020, 8:04 AM

I see now that you are working with many different file types and want to make a Zoom style video in Vegas.

That explains the first problem you reported on Handbrake.

I would suggest you use Zoom rather than try to reverse-engineer the concept to fit other tools.

You have done remarkably, and I will be interested in seeing what you come up with, but again its all a matter of the right tools for the job. Thanks for your detemination.