Fitting 1:47 project onto DVD

MichaelMuller wrote on 12/15/2014, 3:11 PM
I have a 1hr 47min movie project in Vegas Studio 11 that seems to export to 5.7GB no matter what I do. I am using the NTSC DV Widescreen (720x480, 29.970 fps) template for the project.

What settings should I use to fit this on a DVD? Even pulling it into DVD Architect and reducing the bitstream to 4mb/s doesn't make it fit.

Any ideas?

Thanks,

Mik

Comments

vkmast wrote on 12/15/2014, 3:37 PM
A "trivial formula" often quoted here: "Total bitrate = 600 / minutes. That's it. Then just subtract your audio bitrate (.2Mb/s for typical AC3), and you have your average video bitrate number."
DVD Architect tends to overcalculate used disc space.

More reading from here.
MichaelMuller wrote on 12/15/2014, 3:41 PM
So, I should be able to fit this project in if I use a bitrate of 5 without any problems, even if the file reports as 5.7GB right now (it's actually 5.18 on the drive)?

I should just go for it, even if it tells me it won't fit?

Thanks for replying.
MichaelMuller wrote on 12/15/2014, 3:47 PM
Yeah, I reduced the bitrate to 5 and DVD Architect still won't let me burn.
vkmast wrote on 12/15/2014, 3:56 PM
Read Vegas rendering settings for a DVD first. Customize the bitrate in the appropriate DVD Architect compliant template and render in Movie Studio and follow the guidelines that KB article gives.
And please read also the linked threads.
MichaelMuller wrote on 12/15/2014, 9:17 PM
Thanks. Giving that a try right now. I already rendered the video. Doing the audio now. I'll report back tomorrow. :-)

Mik
MichaelMuller wrote on 12/16/2014, 8:08 AM
The mpg file it made is 4.9gb and the wav file is 1.2gb. It now says I'm using 138% of the disc space instead of 120% with the previous method of just "Make Movie" in Studio.

Something I noticed in Studio's "Project Properties" is the template was "Custom (720x480, 29.970 fps)" because I changed the Field order setting to "None (progressive scan)." I just changed that back to "Lower field first", and the template automatically changed back to "NTSC DV Widescreen (720x480, 29.970 fps)." I'm not sure if that will change the file size.

I'll give it another shot. After that, I'm lost. This project was supposed to be finished Sunday morning. Ugh. The editing was completed, but I can't get the friggin thing onto the DVD! It's only 1:47 long. That should fit.
MichaelMuller wrote on 12/16/2014, 8:26 AM
Interesting. I did this same project last year. The running time was 1:44, and it fit the DVD fine. The template I used was "HD 1080-60i (1920x1080, 29.970 fps)" with upper field first.

Ah. Now I'm seeing the Customize Template button. I set Constant bit rate to 4,200,000. Let's see what happens in 4 hours!
Chienworks wrote on 12/16/2014, 8:53 AM
If you're going under, oh, say, 7,000,000, i wouldn't use constant bit rate. This is when you should use two-pass variable bit rate encoding. Yes, it takes twice as long but it's definitely worth it. On the first pass Vegas will decide which portions of your video need more bits because of fast action or high contrast edges and compress those frames less, while "borrowing" bits from sections that have little action or smoother images.

With constant bitrate you end up wasting bits where they're not needed and getting a lot of pixellation and compression artifacts in the high action scenes.
Chienworks wrote on 12/16/2014, 9:03 AM
"I'm not sure if that will change the file size."

It won't, not in the slightest.

Rendered file size is determined solely by two things and two things only: duration and bitrate. Nothing else, not the template, the codec, the file type, the frame size, the frame rate, or any other settings make any difference.

This is why the simple formula of 600/minutes is important and useful. It takes your known duration and tells you what bitrate will fit on the disc. That's all you need to know, and in fact the only thing that does allow you to make it fit.

Now, the answer you get from that formula is a combined video + audio bitrate. You need to subtract the audio bitrate from the answer to get the video bitrate. You mention using WAV, which is huge. It has a bitrate of about 1,536,000 for a CD quality file, or 1,672,000 for a typical DV quality file. That's taking a huge chunk of the 4,200,000 that you're using, and the video would have to be reduced to about 2,400,000 which is pretty poor for DVD. This is why most DVDs use AC3 audio with typical bitrates of 192,000. Using AC3 you'd be able to encode the video at 4,000,000 instead of 2,400,000.
vkmast wrote on 12/16/2014, 9:07 AM
And do remember to use MPEG-2 (that is what a DVD uses). In the Vegas Render As dialog, for video select MPEG-2, and then select one of the DVD Architect templates. You choose either NTSC or PAL and then choose either the standard (4:3) or the widescreen template, depending on the aspect ratio of your project. You then render the audio using the AC-3 or WAV option. AC-3 is a better option for most users because it takes up less space, as Chienworks advises.
All of this and more is in the linked SCS KB article.
musicvid10 wrote on 12/16/2014, 11:12 AM
Use the Videohelp bitrate calculator.
MichaelMuller wrote on 12/16/2014, 1:00 PM
Success! I took the "DVD Architect NTSC Widescreen video stream" render template and customized it down to 4.2 Mbps and the resulting mpg file is only 3.6gb. Yes, I used the constant bitrate, and I can see the artifacts you're talking about, but at this point I cannot spend any more time on this project (what? you can't wait another eight hours for another render session?).

I will take copious notes and save them to the folder where the video files are so I know for next year.

Now to render the audio, and pop this sucker onto a disc and be done.

Thanks to everyone for helping!