Need to create stills in post from Sony AX700 MP4 4K/30 footage

Thomas-Monks wrote on 8/1/2021, 1:55 AM

Greetings folks... I am sure that I'm not the first one to ask this. Please look at my sample photos (screen grabs). I understand that with my AX700, I have the following options:

NTSC] XAVC S 4K: 3840 x 2160/30p, 24p XAVC S HD: 1920 x 1080/120p, 60p, 30p, 24p AVCHD: 1920 x 1080/60i (FX, FH), 1440 x 1080/60i (LP) XAVC S Proxy: 1280 x 720/60p, 30p, 24p, 640 x 360 60p, 30p, 24p [PAL] XAVC S 4K: 3840 x 2160/25p XAVC S HD: 1920 x 1080/100p, 50p, 25p AVCHD: 1920 x 1080/50i (FX, FH), 1440 x 1080/50i (LP) XAVC S Proxy: 1280×720/50p,25p, 640×360/50p,25p

I have been shooting everything in 4K/30p because I want the resolution for stills in post. The only other option I can see could be full HD/120p. As you see from the examples, just walking make a nasty blur. The problem is that if I go HD/120 then my still resolution goes to 2MP from 8MP. Doing the math, 1920 / 10 inch photo would be 192dpi. I'm assuming that will solve my blurry stills issue, as long as I'm willing to suffer with only HD resolution.

QUESTION about using HD/120p: So when I load this into Vegas for editing, how does it work when rendering ? Will Vegs just grab the closest frame when rendering to 30p or will it 'average' the 4 frames for that 1/30th second ?

I understand that it is not possible to take a still shot while in MOVIE mode (taking video). Yes, the 14MP still function is nice after the show portraits but bummer...

OH HEY, Something just dawned upon me...I use the recommended 60 shutter speed (2x frame rate). Perhaps I can do something with that to get rid of blur while still keeping my 4K resolution ? FYI, I'm already riding manual ISO because these places are always poorly lit "Cattle Barns"

Ok I ask you folks... What do I do ? Of course I want 4K video with very nice stills from that video as well... LOL i.e. "People in Hell would also like a glass of ice water..."

 

Comments

john_dennis wrote on 8/1/2021, 11:56 AM

That's one of the reasons I bought the RX10-IV instead of the equivalent camcorder.

  1. Shoot UHD at 29.97p at 1/60 sec, use a tripod and do the best you can.
  2. Buy your wife an RX10-IV or give her your old Canon G9 like I did.
Thomas-Monks wrote on 8/1/2021, 2:43 PM

That's one of the reasons I bought the RX10-IV instead of the equivalent camcorder.

  1. Shoot UHD at 29.97p at 1/60 sec, use a tripod and do the best you can.
  2. Buy your wife an RX10-IV or give her your old Canon G9 like I did.

Hi John, I'm very confused. Please clarify: RX10-IV ? G9 ? Those are DSLR cameras. The Sony AX700 is a VIDEO primary camera with a still mode as well. Both modes cannot be used at the same time.

I hope I was clear in my post that I'm shooting UHD (4K) at 30p and 1/60 shutter (your comment #1). The image stabilization is pretty good. In photo #2, please take a look at the chair and ribbons on the table, while looking at the girl walking. A tripod is not necessary. REMEMBER I'm SHOOTING 4K LIVE VIDEO not stills and taking stills from the 4K video.

I guess I will jack up the shutter speed to 1/120 from 1/60 as see how that helps in the dim lighting / riding ISO.

Howard-Vigorita wrote on 8/1/2021, 4:06 PM

@Thomas-Monks I pull stills off my footage all the time and usually shoot at 30p myself. Best frames are when subject is motionless for a moment unless you want the blur to convey a sense of motion. If I was shooting something with allot of motion, like dance, I think I'd go for 60p. When outdoors in bright sunlight it's easier to keep a high f-stop, 30p, and just boost the shutter speed. Tough doing that indoors and/or in dim light. Doubling the shutter speed will require a wider aperture to offset which will also reduce your depth of field making focus more critical. More flexible when you have control of lights.

john_dennis wrote on 8/1/2021, 4:10 PM

If you want good quality stills, buy a stills camera or a bridge camera like the Sony RX10-IV. The Canon G9 was a compact stills camera. I have owned a G4, G5, G9 and G15, primarily because they fit in my pocket.

Shinra Bansho wrote on 8/1/2021, 6:32 PM

@Thomas-Monks, perhaps you could try one of the AI-Image enhancers to improve the quality of the still images extracted from your videos. Attached is an example processed by Topaz AI-Sharpen. There are some free/trialware, even web-based ones, available so check them if you're interested.

PC 1: ASUS ROG Strix B-760i Gaming Wifi, 64GB RAM (DDR5), i5 14600K, 2TB M2.SSD, ASUS RTX-4070 (12GB), Windows 11 Pro Version 24H2

PC 2: ASUS Prime H570-PLUS MB, 32GB RAM, i7-10700K, 1TB SSD (M.2), 8TB HD, NVidia RTX3080 10GB, Windows 11 Home 24H2

Gears: Panasonic GH4/GH5, Sony FDR-AX100/A7C/A74/FX30

Thomas-Monks wrote on 8/1/2021, 6:34 PM

@Thomas-Monks I pull stills off my footage all the time and usually shoot at 30p myself. Best frames are when subject is motionless for a moment unless you want the blur to convey a sense of motion. If I was shooting something with allot of motion, like dance, I think I'd go for 60p. When outdoors in bright sunlight it's easier to keep a high f-stop, 30p, and just boost the shutter speed. Tough doing that indoors and/or in dim light. Doubling the shutter speed will require a wider aperture to offset which will also reduce your depth of field making focus more critical. More flexible when you have control of lights.

Thanks Howard...

That's what I thought. The next venue "Reno Livestock Center" has a dirt floor the size of a football field (indoors) and boasts new LED lighting... so there's hope for that one. If I'm not mistaken from your post, Since the quickest movement will be as in photo #2 (walking) I will try for 120 shutter and hope 150 won't be necessary, watch focus, wide open f-stops at 3.4... If I can get away with that, then I can try to close the iris some to gain depth of field.

Finally, I gather that you agree to try these steps first before going to 1080p as my camera can only do >30fps at 1080p while 4K is only 30 fps.

Thomas-Monks wrote on 8/1/2021, 6:41 PM

@Thomas-Monks, perhaps you could try one of the AI-Image enhancers to improve the quality of the still images extracted from your videos. Attached is an example processed by Topaz AI-Sharpen. There are some free/trialware, even web-based ones, available so check them if you're interested.

WOW ! Thanks, That does help... you sold me. Thanks to folks here on the Vegas Forum I did get an automated noise reducer for video because of some low light noise and it works very well. Also sometimes I record piano concerts and there is nice plugin called TEOTE (That's Easy On the Ears) is a dynamic auto equalizer (I guess) and really smooths out everything. I throw it on the final master output.

 

Howard-Vigorita wrote on 8/1/2021, 8:07 PM

I think it depends on what you'll be doing with the stills. I did it with 1080p quite a while before going to 4k and it's fine for web promo and stuff like that. But forget about magazine covers or posters. A 4k frame size gives an image similar to an 8mp still camera which is not bad. Though 6k would be better. For stills from the video, raising the shutter speed alone should do it even if you shoot 30p. Never done any rodeo myself but my guess is that if you ask around, the photographers there will be shooting at 1/500 sec or higher. You may want more than 30p for slowmo rodeo action.

Thomas-Monks wrote on 8/1/2021, 10:44 PM

I think it depends on what you'll be doing with the stills. I did it with 1080p quite a while before going to 4k and it's fine for web promo and stuff like that. But forget about magazine covers or posters. A 4k frame size gives an image similar to an 8mp still camera which is not bad. Though 6k would be better. For stills from the video, raising the shutter speed alone should do it even if you shoot 30p. Never done any rodeo myself but my guess is that if you ask around, the photographers there will be shooting at 1/500 sec or higher. You may want more than 30p for slowmo rodeo action.

LOL, NO it's not Rodeo. Per the attached photos, I'm shooting American Kennel Club shows for my family. I've added another photo of this indoor venue along with a 1080p video from the last venue with (of course) bad lighting. The most action is walking and quicker movements by dog. I'm just saying that I've been at AKC venues during covid where the show is literally in a covered horse arena with really bad lighting. The Reno facility DOES host the Reno Rodeo in their outdoor venue, but again it will be an indoor dog show on their dirt floor where they boast updated LED lighting. This, by far is the best venue yet as others were in barns with lousy lighting. I hope I can get good 4K/30 1/120s footage here and who knows, I will see if I can jack it up to 1/180s... we shall see.

Come to think of it, it reminds me of lights and levels at my local Costco.

Here's a still from someone else of the indoor arena and a HD version of what the action looks like at a typical dog show...boring. There will not be any riding of Bucking French Poodles here...lol.

Musicvid wrote on 8/4/2021, 3:08 AM

I see a combination of wrong focus zone, low light, slow shutter speed, and wide aperture, creating an impossible DOF challenge.