Need to work with frames, regardless of time and speed.

Marty111 wrote on 1/15/2019, 5:24 AM

Good morning, I'm an amateur film maker, reader of the forum but I have a question that I need to post.
I'm a bit familiar with Vegas, but I guess not enough.

I'm often in the need to assemble footage that has different frame-rate from 23 o 30 fps. It seems I have the choice between blurriness (mixture of two frames in a single one, it's the worst), or additional frames (one additional frame identical to the previous one) every 5 or 6 frame or so). I really dislike the blurriness, so I choose additional frames and spend hours to delete each additional frame on my footage and render a 30fps vidoe. It's a pain because I do that ounce the work is done, and It's hard to fill the gaps.

Is there a way to have Vegas "not to care about time" and instead caring about frames ? Meaning, considering only frames : One timeline segmant=, one frame, regardless of the speed. I don't mind if a 10 second 23fps is previewed and rendered as an 8 second or so footage, that's exactly what I need.

I would greatly appreciate any tip.

 

Comments

3POINT wrote on 1/15/2019, 6:18 AM

When I understand you right and don't care about speed changes, you should import your media at projects framerate (rightclick media in media folder and select "Add at project framerate"). This means that for example that a 24 fps media imported in a 30 fps project will be played with 30 fps speed (faster) without blurring or doubling frames.

Marty111 wrote on 1/15/2019, 2:54 PM

Hi 3point!
I can't find the "Add at project framerate" option

(I'm using Vegas 13)

3POINT wrote on 1/15/2019, 3:17 PM

Unfortunately, this option has been first introduced in VegasPro14 and VegasMoviestudio15. I don't know an easy workaround to achieve this in VegasPro13.

From 23,976 fps to 29,970 fps is exactly 125%. This could be done by stretching each 24p event to 125% on the timeline.

Last changed by 3POINT on 1/15/2019, 3:49 PM, changed a total of 3 times.

3POINT, Theo Houben, Vegasuser since version 5 and co-founder and moderator of the Dutch Vegasforum https://www.vegas-videoforum.nl/index.php

Recware: DJI Osmo Pocket/Mavic Mini, GoproHero7Black, PanasonicFZ300/HCX909.

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john_dennis wrote on 1/15/2019, 10:35 PM

Marty111 said:

"I don't mind if a 10 second 23fps is previewed and rendered as an 8 second or so footage, that's exactly what I need."

There is a frame rate conversion option in all versions of Vegas that I fondly call the "nuclear option".

  • Render each frame in your 23.97p clips to a lossless still image sequence. Still images have no frame rate.
  • Import the still image sequence into a new project at 29.97p
  • Time compress the audio to match the new length video using elastique.

This is Howie Duet.

This method is a lot of work. I've done it on occasion, but the video has to be special to get me to exert all that effort.

3POINT wrote on 1/15/2019, 11:54 PM

This method is a lot of work.

Exactly, also because you have than still to compress the audio part to exactly 125%. This could be done directly for the audio and video part as I described.

I would advise, if this option is often needed, upgrade to Vpro16 or VMS15.

klt wrote on 1/16/2019, 12:08 AM

@Marty111, if you right click an event on timeline, do you see an option like "conform to project framerate" or similar? This basically changes the playback rate of the event. I'm not sure, if this option is present in Vegas13?

john_dennis wrote on 1/16/2019, 1:07 AM

"... if you right click an event on timeline, do you see an option like "conform to project framerate" or similar?"

The option is a right+click from the Project Media window. It wasn't present in Vegas 13, but appeared in 14 and later.

 

When selected, some of the work is done for you...

3POINT wrote on 1/16/2019, 1:58 AM

I would say this option does all the work...it stretches video AND audio. I use this option often also for making slomotions (50%) of 48/50/60 fps media in 24/25/30 fps projects.

klt wrote on 1/16/2019, 2:09 AM

@john_dennis, sorry I was wrong. I really meant right-click the event (clip?) already on the timeline.

But I remembered wrong, it is really right-click/properties, and the button there:

Is that there in Vegas13?

 

3POINT wrote on 1/16/2019, 2:14 AM

@john_dennis, sorry I was wrong. I really meant right-click the event (clip?) already on the timeline.

But I remembered wrong, it is really right-click/properties, and the button there:

Is that there in Vegas13?

 

This option is also since VegasPro14 (when I remember right) but doesn't change the audio part.

klt wrote on 1/16/2019, 2:20 AM

This option is also since VegasPro14

Ah, OK.

but doesn't change the audio part.

Indeed, it doesn't.

Marty111 wrote on 1/16/2019, 6:27 AM

I don't mind about stretching the audio I don't use the audio present on my source footage.

So if I understand, the only clean and quick option is to use Vegas pro14 ?

I would to so at ounce ff I was sure Vegas 14 doesn't bring any issue or hasn't canceled some features/support from the 13 version. My computers aren't exactly new.

What were the main complains about switching from Vegas pro 13 to Vegas pro 14 ? Do I need windows7 sp1 to run Vegas pro 14 with no issues ? One of my computers doesn't have sp1.

klt wrote on 1/16/2019, 7:01 AM

Well, you can change playback rate in Vegas13 too. Right click the event on the timeline, choose properties. You know the framerate of you media, also of your project. In playback rate enter the value:

project framrate / media framrate.

So, for example, for 59.94p media in a 25p project I'd enter 0.417.

I think that should work.

I'm also sure you could grab a trial version of Vegas14 somewhere, and see if you can install.

Update:

https://www.vegascreativesoftware.info/us/forum/vegas-pro-14-update-7-build-270--107103/

Follow the link to download. It's Vegas14 retail, I think if you install it without a serial, it will run in trial mode.

Last changed by klt on 1/16/2019, 7:07 AM, changed a total of 1 times.

Camera: JVC GY-HM600

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Laptop: i5 5200u, 8GB RAM (1600MHz single channel) Videocard: integrated HD5500

3POINT wrote on 1/16/2019, 7:14 AM

So, for example, for 59.94p media in a 25p project I'd enter 0.417..

That indeed does change the framerate of the videopart of the event, but not the event length, which must than still be changed manually.

Why upgrade to VPro14, (do you still get it?). Upgrading to VPro16 is more logical and should cost the same.

Marty111 wrote on 1/16/2019, 8:55 AM

Well money isn't really the issue, good tools have no price, I mean to a certain point of course :/
I'm still running windows 7 with old computers so I'm just concerned about compatibility issues.

"project framrate / media framrate.

So, for example, for 59.94p media in a 25p project I'd enter 0.417."

That guy made a video ( ) I thinks he talks about your method in the comment section and say that it's not 100¨% reliable :

"+XanArt21 I know, this is crazy and stupid, but Sony Vegas is not perfect. There is easier method. Import video to the timeline. Right click mouse button - properties - playback rate. You have to use calculator again (destination framerate/source framerate). Don´t forget set project framerate to destination framerate. This method is less accurate, but easier and faster. You can use another utilities to set framerate clip like AviDemux or VirtualDub."

Marty111 wrote on 1/16/2019, 8:56 AM

Can I have both Vegas 13 and 14 (maybe even 16) installed a computer ? Or might it cause issues ?

vkmast wrote on 1/16/2019, 9:11 AM

Many of us have several versions installed.

john_dennis wrote on 1/16/2019, 9:13 AM

Kit said: "Is that there in Vegas13?"

It looks like this in 13.

john_dennis wrote on 1/16/2019, 9:30 AM

Changing the Playback Rate as 3Point and Kit described works and Vegas 13 gives a little help by placing a little triangle on the event. You could use this method on the timeline every time you use the media or you could create a project to nest in projects of different frame rates. I'll call this the "tactical nuclear option".

3POINT wrote on 1/16/2019, 10:39 AM

John, that little triangle shows only up when changing framerate from 24p to 30p, not when changing 30p to 24p. As said before, changing framerate doesn't change automatically the event length.

@ Marty you can leave as many Vegas versions on your PC as you have bought. On my PC at the moment, Vpro14, Vpro15, VPro16 besides VMS15. Also older projects are always also editable in newer Vegas-Versionen.

 

Last changed by 3POINT on 1/16/2019, 10:42 AM, changed a total of 1 times.

3POINT, Theo Houben, Vegasuser since version 5 and co-founder and moderator of the Dutch Vegasforum https://www.vegas-videoforum.nl/index.php

Recware: DJI Osmo Pocket/Mavic Mini, GoproHero7Black, PanasonicFZ300/HCX909.

Software: Vegaspro365+Vegasaur, PowerDirector365, Davinci Resolve 20

Hardware: i910900k, 32GB, GTX2080super, 2x1920x1200 display

Playware: Samsung Qled QE65Q6FN

3POINT wrote on 1/16/2019, 12:45 PM

The triangle shows only up when the event container is larger than the media inside.

Last changed by 3POINT on 1/16/2019, 12:48 PM, changed a total of 1 times.

3POINT, Theo Houben, Vegasuser since version 5 and co-founder and moderator of the Dutch Vegasforum https://www.vegas-videoforum.nl/index.php

Recware: DJI Osmo Pocket/Mavic Mini, GoproHero7Black, PanasonicFZ300/HCX909.

Software: Vegaspro365+Vegasaur, PowerDirector365, Davinci Resolve 20

Hardware: i910900k, 32GB, GTX2080super, 2x1920x1200 display

Playware: Samsung Qled QE65Q6FN

john_dennis wrote on 1/16/2019, 1:16 PM

Thinking...

klt wrote on 1/16/2019, 1:34 PM

@john_dennis , I meant the "conform" button, and it's indeed missing from Vegas 13.

Of course, properties dialog is present in V13. In fact it was present Vegas8 too, which was my first version... I just skipped Vegas13 because I used Vegas10 for a very long time. And when I upgraded to Vegas14 from 13 it was just a few week later (that was the free upgrade option).

@3POINT , yes, setting the framerate via this dialog does not change the length. I don't see this to be a problem, as I would set the speed right after added to the timeline. Setting the proper length would be the part of the editing process for me. To be honest, I could not recall any single case where I used a footage 100%. There was always something to trim from a media.

It was my assumption, that anyone else would edit the event just like I would do.

Last changed by klt on 1/16/2019, 1:43 PM, changed a total of 1 times.

Camera: JVC GY-HM600

Desktop: AMD Ryzen 5 1600, 16GB RAM (dual channel 2400 MHz) - Videocard: Radeon R9 380 2GB

Laptop: i5 5200u, 8GB RAM (1600MHz single channel) Videocard: integrated HD5500

3POINT wrote on 1/16/2019, 2:49 PM

, yes, setting the framerate via this dialog does not change the length. I don't see this to be a problem, as I would set the speed right after added to the timeline. Setting the proper length would be the part of the editing process for me. To be honest, I could not recall any single case where I used a footage 100%. There was always something to trim from a media.

It was my assumption, that anyone else would edit the event just like I would do.

The new " add at project framerate" is the quickest and easiest method to change framerate of both video and audio without doing calculation or manual event stretching, to the framerate of the project. I'm glad that Magic added this option, I use it quite a lot. Ofcourse there always several ways to achieve something in Vegas, everyone may decide which way he prefers. I prefer always the quickest and easiest.