New user Vegas 15 - considering rig update

flavio-k wrote on 2/20/2020, 5:17 PM

Hello,

I'm an amateur / semi-pro soccer video producer, which is to say, I film my son's soccer games :) I use a Sony AX53 at 1080p60.

I do little in the realm of effects and few adjustments such as horizon tilt and occasionally slight color correction. So far I've been using Adobe Premiere Elements 12 on an Intel i5-old (Z77 platform) with AMD 7870HD. A 1 hr soccer match takes about 1.75hr render.

So a while back I came across a Humble Bundle deal where I got Vegas 15 for like $15. I have yet to learn the software but lately I've been thinking that it may be time to upgrade my rig anyway.

So, I'm not strapped for money per se, but as I'm no pro, this would be just a splurge. As such, I want to stay within $1K to $1.5K. I like to game, but I hardly have any time to do so and whatever I play would not come near any limitations, so gaming is not top of mind.

I'm fairly certain I'll go Ryzen, because, after having given up on AMD many years ago, I think it's time to support them again. We need at least 2 companies out there :)

I was going to get the R5 3600 but then I saw the benchmarks and the R7 3700X and the R9 3900X blow it out of the water. The million dollar question is whether I should go with 3900x @$500 or just R7 @$330.

Then the mobo, B450 or X570? $200-$300 target. I get the idea of future proofing, but I don't like the lack of passive cooling on the south bridge in the X570 (except the Gigabyte flagship @$700 which I will never go for).

Finally, the GPU - looks like it has to be Nvidia? I'd like to stay in the $300 range; don't think I can justify those crazy expensive cards.

Case-wise, I'll probably do Fractal Meshify or NZXT 510 or possibly Lian Li O11, but that hardly matters right? Air cooling almost certainly. Don't care about overclocking.

The benchmarks really persuaded me of spending the money for the 3900X until I read in the Vegas forums that 12 cores vs 8 should matter little if any. So I'm confused...

Any perspective will be greatly appreciated.

Flavio

Comments

RogerS wrote on 2/20/2020, 10:01 PM

So all you are looking for is faster render times? I don't think you need exotic CPUs or GPUs to just render out 1080p clips.

You should be able to beat 1:1 (1 hour clip takes 1 hour to render) with any modern combination and GPU accelerated encoding.

flavio-k wrote on 2/20/2020, 10:14 PM

Thanks - actually the question is whether it is worth it to go all the way to the 3900X. I realize that the R5 will already be much better than my current setup, but if the 3900X can cut render time in half vs R5 3600, the extra $$ is tempting. Hoping to see if those benchmarks out there are legit or if real life scenarios the difference is not that meaningful.

Also, how important is going with the X570 vs just the B450? How noisy is the X570?

And what GPU card should I be looking at?

fifonik wrote on 2/21/2020, 2:55 AM

I'm also amateur, working with 1080-60p, using Ryzen 3700X + RX 580.

In VP15/VP17 raw footage preview is always maxed to 60fps (best | full), 8 or 32 bit pixel format.

When I'm working with 32 bit pixel format and adding filters (mercalli v4, levels, colour corrector and sharpen are almost always are in use) I do not have 60fps preview any longer. It dropped to ~50fps (CPU 60%+). In 8 bit pixel format preview is still maxed to 60fps. Render time is not important for me at all.

I would not go for x570. Do not see any reason.

GPU: Nvidia is more popular here and looks like it is better. At the same time, based on messages in the forum, it looks like people with NVidia have more issues. I could be wrong here, but I decided not to move to NVidia GPU on the PC where I'm editing video (additional speed is not really needed as I do not editing 4K). I'm having NVidia GPUs in some other home PCs. However, in case of VP15 both NVidia and AMD does NOT assist VP in decoding video that is important when working with 4K (not my case).

Last changed by fifonik on 2/21/2020, 4:28 PM, changed a total of 5 times.

Camcorder: Panasonic X1500 + DJI OSMO Action 6

Desktop: MB: MSI B650M Gaming Plus WIFI, CPU: AMD Ryzen 9700X, RAM: G'Skill 64 GB DDR5@6000, Graphics card: XFX RX-7900 XTX 24GB, SSD: Seagate FireCuda 530R2 (NVMe, OS), Samsung 970 Evo+ 1TB (NVMe, source footage), HDD WD 4TB, HDD Toshiba 4TB, OS: Windows 10 Pro 22H2

NLE: Vegas Pro [Edit] 11, 12, 13, 15, 17, 18, 19, 22

Author of FFMetrics and FFBitrateViewer

JN- wrote on 2/21/2020, 8:49 AM

@flavio-k You can check out the results of the forum Benchmarking here. There's a wide variety of systems used.

Bear in mind when looking at the render times that its a 4K-UHD 41 second duration project, rendered out to either 4K-UHD or FHD.

Last changed by JN- on 2/21/2020, 8:59 AM, changed a total of 1 times.

---------------------------------------------

VFR2CFR, Variable frame rate to Constant frame rate link to zip here.

Copies Video Converts Audio to AAC, link to zip here.

Convert 2 Lossless, link to ZIP here.

Convert Odd 2 Even (frame size), link to ZIP here

Benchmarking Continued thread + link to zip here

Codec Render Quality tables zip

---------------------------------------------

PC ... Corsair case, own build ...

CPU .. i9 9900K, iGpu UHD 630

Memory .. 32GB DDR4

Graphics card .. MSI RTX 2080 ti

Graphics driver .. latest studio

PSU .. Corsair 850i

Mboard .. Asus Z390 Code

 

Laptop… XMG

i9-11900k, iGpu n/a

Memory 64GB DDR4

Graphics card … Laptop RTX 3080

fr0sty wrote on 2/21/2020, 2:51 PM

If considering a rig update, I'd consider budgeting an update to Vegas Pro 17 as well so you can utilize the GPU decoding your new GPU will certainly have. Or, assuming Vegas sticks to the annual update around late-summer each year, wait for 18 to drop and update to it.

Last changed by fr0sty on 2/21/2020, 2:52 PM, changed a total of 1 times.

Systems:

Desktop

AMD Ryzen 7 1800x 8 core 16 thread at stock speed

64GB 3000mhz DDR4

Geforce RTX 3090

Windows 10

Laptop:

ASUS Zenbook Pro Duo 32GB (9980HK CPU, RTX 2060 GPU, dual 4K touch screens, main one OLED HDR)

fifonik wrote on 2/21/2020, 3:08 PM

Valid point about upgrading to VP17. However, this might not help at all. For example, while I see improvements on test files with the latest VP17 build because off AMD decoding, on my own footage there is zero difference. VP17 does not use GPU decoding for them.

Camcorder: Panasonic X1500 + DJI OSMO Action 6

Desktop: MB: MSI B650M Gaming Plus WIFI, CPU: AMD Ryzen 9700X, RAM: G'Skill 64 GB DDR5@6000, Graphics card: XFX RX-7900 XTX 24GB, SSD: Seagate FireCuda 530R2 (NVMe, OS), Samsung 970 Evo+ 1TB (NVMe, source footage), HDD WD 4TB, HDD Toshiba 4TB, OS: Windows 10 Pro 22H2

NLE: Vegas Pro [Edit] 11, 12, 13, 15, 17, 18, 19, 22

Author of FFMetrics and FFBitrateViewer

fr0sty wrote on 2/21/2020, 3:57 PM

GPU Decoding only works on H264 and HEVC media, no matter which GPU you are using.

Systems:

Desktop

AMD Ryzen 7 1800x 8 core 16 thread at stock speed

64GB 3000mhz DDR4

Geforce RTX 3090

Windows 10

Laptop:

ASUS Zenbook Pro Duo 32GB (9980HK CPU, RTX 2060 GPU, dual 4K touch screens, main one OLED HDR)

fifonik wrote on 2/21/2020, 4:24 PM

I'm aware of that. Container is also important. If I put raw m2st files (directly from camcorder) on timeline -- no GPU decoding. If I re-wrap them to mp4 (no re-encoding, the same AVC video stream) -- GPU decoder is used.

Last changed by fifonik on 2/21/2020, 4:25 PM, changed a total of 1 times.

Camcorder: Panasonic X1500 + DJI OSMO Action 6

Desktop: MB: MSI B650M Gaming Plus WIFI, CPU: AMD Ryzen 9700X, RAM: G'Skill 64 GB DDR5@6000, Graphics card: XFX RX-7900 XTX 24GB, SSD: Seagate FireCuda 530R2 (NVMe, OS), Samsung 970 Evo+ 1TB (NVMe, source footage), HDD WD 4TB, HDD Toshiba 4TB, OS: Windows 10 Pro 22H2

NLE: Vegas Pro [Edit] 11, 12, 13, 15, 17, 18, 19, 22

Author of FFMetrics and FFBitrateViewer

flavio-k wrote on 2/23/2020, 1:30 PM

OK so here's another question and I know full well where I'm asking it. But if Vegas 15 has issues and I need to budget and upgrade to 17 or 18, I wonder whether it's worth it for me to even learn the platform. I purchased 15 because of the amazing deal on Humble Bundle and because Premiere Elements 12 is so outdated. But if I have to spend money, then is Vegas really better than say Resolve? Or Premiere Pro? Not trying to troll, just being pragmatic. I have little time to learn new ways of doing things, so my trade offs are: 1) learn new ways approach (free vs free vs paid - Resolve vs Vegas 15 vs Vegas 17/18) or 2) don't learn new ways - (free vs paid - Premiere Elements 12 vs Premiere Pro). I'm leaning to 1b obviously, but if 15 is not a good way to go, then 1a seems to make better sense? Please keep in mind I make zero income from video production, so can't justify the expense as anything but a hobby.

JN- wrote on 2/23/2020, 2:02 PM

@flavio-k Given the investment in time required to master an NLE, its well worth taking your time over this.

Why not spend some time getting acquainted with trial versions of VP17, Resolve etc. The only gotcha here is that it makes more sense IMHO to upgrade your HW first, as the latest software versions are more demanding.

Support is important too, whether official and or what’s available on the respective user forums.

 

 

---------------------------------------------

VFR2CFR, Variable frame rate to Constant frame rate link to zip here.

Copies Video Converts Audio to AAC, link to zip here.

Convert 2 Lossless, link to ZIP here.

Convert Odd 2 Even (frame size), link to ZIP here

Benchmarking Continued thread + link to zip here

Codec Render Quality tables zip

---------------------------------------------

PC ... Corsair case, own build ...

CPU .. i9 9900K, iGpu UHD 630

Memory .. 32GB DDR4

Graphics card .. MSI RTX 2080 ti

Graphics driver .. latest studio

PSU .. Corsair 850i

Mboard .. Asus Z390 Code

 

Laptop… XMG

i9-11900k, iGpu n/a

Memory 64GB DDR4

Graphics card … Laptop RTX 3080

RogerS wrote on 2/23/2020, 10:18 PM

If I were you I'd spend nothing on hardware or software, and practice using the software you have until you hit its limits. Vegas 15 is a fine program if it's working stably for you. I've been downloading Resolve for years but never really learned it. It's free, but the time to get up to speed on it is considerable. It also wants very powerful hardware. I have Vegas 15 working happily on a 10 year old laptop (with 1080p footage).

If you are having slow playback, create proxy clips or just bypass your Fx while editing and only enable them for color correction. You can also prerender sections of the project if you have challenging transitions that won't play back in real time.

wjauch wrote on 2/24/2020, 7:27 PM

FWIW I am using Vegas Pro 15 on a 4 year old i7 6700 laptop 16 GB Ram with Red 5k footage. Have briefly tried it on my sons Ryzen 2600 16GB desktop Nvidia 1060 GPU. The Ryzen PC is faster. IMO you'll get a pretty good Ryzen PC for $1000 that will run Vegas 15 very well. I suspect Vegas 17 will show up on Humble Bundle in 2021 or 2022 otherwise Magix will sell you an update for I think $150-$200. Premire Pro requires a monthly subscription.

VEGASPascal wrote on 2/26/2020, 3:10 AM

I suspect Vegas 17 will show up on Humble Bundle in 2021 or 2022

Nope. I do not think so.

vkmast wrote on 2/26/2020, 3:19 AM

The updates (new builds of a version) are free. The upgrade pricing is here.