SOS Help, VEGAS preview color is inconformity and inaccurate

Comments

Marco. wrote on 5/11/2020, 4:07 PM

"Given my most prevalent use case, outside in bright sun, I usually get a fair amount of 255."

Quite fine (almost). This one is taken from a local EBU broadcast of the Tour de France. See the bright peaks.

The only places where the bright peaks could have been caused is in the camera itself or in the camera's CCU. The signal passed a long way from there to the final local broadcast. After the CCU it went through the video switcher and routing matrix of the French broadcast van into another routing matrix into the routing matrix of the local broadcast van, via its own vision mixer into the next routing matrix, to the local broadcasting station, next routing matrix, local video switcher, back to a routing matrix, finally a cross media delivery. At no place the peaks were reduced or limited (some encoding noise happening in the very end).

LongIslander wrote on 5/11/2020, 4:36 PM

(assuming your intended target is youtube)

Applying the “computer to studio” fix to the preview works if your project media is all 0-255.

If you have 16-235 content you don't need to add anything.

Ie. my gopro footage i have to apply levels. 0-255

my iphone footage i do not. 16-235

john_dennis wrote on 5/11/2020, 5:02 PM

@LongIslander

"(assuming your intended target is youtube)"

Make your scopes look like this.

What I deliver:

What my camera sees:

@Marco.

What my local broadcasters deliver to my antenna:

ABC

CBS

NBC

As Shakira says: "These scopes don't lie."

Musicvid wrote on 5/11/2020, 5:08 PM

@Marco. said:

But a common case is the source levels are 16 up to 255. Without caring for the levels within a proper color correction, if you'd then use a Computer-to-Studio-RGB filter for the output, you'd finally had your reference black set to 32 and probably have raised all the shadow noise up to the visible level.

Yes. Without scopes or an "aware" set of eyes, that would be the baseline outcome. And I agree that case is very common, such as with @john_dennis sample.

So, in deciding on which fallback choice to recommend for uninformed and scopeless editors, we "could" choose to do nothing, resulting in ok blacks and clipped whites on video playback.

Or, we could add the Studio RGB filter at the output, resulting in good highlights and slightly lifted blacks.

WRT this method, farss (Bob) said 'way back in 2011:

I think I now understand what you're trying to do, clue is "failsafe".

Your method is "foolproof" if all someone wants to do is take video from any camera and upload it to YouTube and never get an ugly mess.

I think that's about the closest Bob and I ever got to agreeing on anything.

By either method, and with introducing the notion of informed eyeballing or scopes, it's easy to keep the highlight detail and beef up the blacks a little bit, which I think is what Nick's method implies during the course of editing. The result is the same, contingent of course on the editor's experience, or more often lack of it.

I think the professional advice, "Apply the Computer RGB filter, grade astutely, remove the filter, and render" is full of booby traps for new users.

 

 

Marco. wrote on 5/11/2020, 5:23 PM

ABC

I find it's interesting in this case the CG not only allows for white peaks above 235 (100 %) but also black peaks below 16 (0 %).

john_dennis wrote on 5/11/2020, 5:31 PM

I'm frequently amazed at what is "allowed" and what is done.

Notice the disturbance the white borders cause on the NBC snapshot. Because I see that with borders (quick color changes) a lot, I included borders in my diabolical render quality measurement test video for High Complexity.

Marco. wrote on 5/11/2020, 5:33 PM

"So, in deciding on which fallback choice to recommend for uninformed and scopeless editors, …"

And finally for these scopeless ones there is that nice zebra fx chain. ;)

Musicvid wrote on 5/11/2020, 6:05 PM

At least with digital screens, we don't have to run for the basement shelter every time the picture tears and the cage starts to buzz.

Marco. wrote on 5/11/2020, 6:07 PM

"I'm frequently amazed at what is "allowed" and what is done."

Interesting reading, maybe, even if not meant for the US broadcasting:

EBU R.103

Marco. wrote on 5/11/2020, 6:09 PM

At least with digital screens, we don't have to run for the basement shelter every time the picture tears and the cage starts to buzz.

😁😁😁

 

Musicvid wrote on 5/11/2020, 8:58 PM

Here are Secondary CC Presets very similar to Marco's Hi-Lo Clipping Indicators.

I find them useful for daily work.

 

Marco. wrote on 5/12/2020, 1:48 AM

👍

john_dennis wrote on 5/12/2020, 1:51 AM

I'll read EBU R.103. I read Crime and Punishment.

Reyfox wrote on 5/14/2020, 1:17 PM

I find this all extremely interesting and enlightening.

Thanks!

Newbie😁

Vegas Pro 22 (VP18-21 also installed)

Win 11 Pro always updated

AMD Ryzen 9 5950X 16 cores / 32 threads

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Sapphire RX6700XT 12GB Driver: 22.5.1, testing 24.7.1

Gigabyte X570 Elite Motherboard