"I, for one, hope the Vegas team never even has that discussion in the break room. That change would leave me with twelve years of properly leveled projects that I'd have to revisit in some fashion."

Same here. I appreciate how Vegas Pro handles levels – just passing them 1:1, straight, clear, accurate – and it was one of the main reasons I once switched to Vegas Pro.

Think about it, why other NLE all automatically convert media (including picture and video) to 0-255 in preview window?

It's because their users are dumb as ****.

Who needs automatic shifter? Invalid drivers, that can't shift manually. Automatic shifters are idiot proof.

Are their developers all fools?

Of course not. Not the developers.

Are those developers all sick?

Well, sometimes the are, and when they are they go see a doctor. That's perfectly normal. Everybody does that.

The answer is no. The problem is Vegas itself.

If Vegas is your problem then learn to use it. Learn! We all have.

Actually you guys are minority who need 16-235. Almost all other users need 0-255 in preview because almost all video creators display their video in Youtube, Facebook, Twitter, Tiktok, Instagram and many other We-Medias. These peopel are the most majority and they totally need 0-255. The minority shouldn't kidnap the majority.

Is this about democracy?

We all need to do what we all need to do, and then we do it. Some of us are wannabees who have the audacity to blame Vegas for not being able to satisfy their needs. Those are idiots, per definition. Majority minority...who cares!

 

VEGAS Pro indeed need to auto convert media (including picture and video) to 0-255 just like all other NLE.

No, it doesn't.

At least it should add a option for users to select.

The option's called VEGAS Levels. Make use of it!

Think about it, why other NLE all automatically convert media (including picture and video) to 0-255 in preview window?

No, Vegas Preview display is RGB (0-255).

Actually you guys are minority who need 16-235.

No, we don't. and we are telling you that. It seems that YOU need clipped 16-235 mapped in YOUR preview. You have employed a common logical fallacy called the "straw man argument." Don't do that.

Honestly, where do you guys come up with this stuff?

Here. Vegas Preview. 0-255 RGB. Same as it's always been. Don't Blow Smoke. Learn instead.

https://www.vegascreativesoftware.info/us/forum/new-users-consult-the-tutorials-first-please--118014/

 

If I understand correctly, then you claim that Vegas displays 0-255 in the preview window?

Claim? No.

I state that Vegas displays 0-255 in the preview window.

OP has now misstated this fundamental fact seven times in this thread.

.

I'll check in with the discussion in about five years.

In the meantime, you "could" start reading the manual. This Help reference has not changed in eighteen years!

I hope you tell the Premiere forum how bad Vegas is

;?)

Claim? No.

I state that Vegas displays 0-255 in the preview window.

OP has now fundamentally misstated this fact seven times in this thread.

.

...........

I personally don't like Premiere, so this is not my style :-)

Please be patient for a while and try to relax.
Can you please explain this to me ......

You say Vegas shows 0-255. If I render the video and reopen it in Vegas, it's RGB the same. It is well!

If I open the video in the player, where I set 0-255 and in the nvidia setting it is also 0-255, then the video has a higher contrast.

If I change the value on nvidia to 16-235, the video looks the same as in Vegas.
 

I think that's what people have been dealing with for years.

If Vegas displays and renders 0-255 and the player and nvidia settings are also set to 0-255, why does it have higher contrast?


I think the problem with the whole case is here:

The Video Preview window shows 16-235!
That's true, and there's nothing you can do about it.

Video scope shows 0-255. The video render is also 0-255, but Video Preview window shows 16-235.

If I activate this option here and change the video to Full screen, the image in Vegas looks the same as in the player with a value of 0-255. So as it should !!! Correctly!

It is literally written - do you want to convert from 16-235 to 0-255 in the preview?
So from the Studio to Computer RGB.

This means that Video Preview shows 16-235 and if I check this option, I will see 0-255.
That is a fact and there is no reason to discuss it further.

The mistake is, this function does not work in the classic small Video preview but only in an external full screen monitor.

That is the reason for years of controversy and speculation. People usually cut in a small Video window, which is 16-235, and then they are very surprised.

It's good that Vegas is the only one that doesn't change RGB automatically for photos or videos, as some suggest here.Such suggestions are the way to hell and must be categorically rejected!

And now everyone please take a breath, go for a walk and give it a try.

Repair for the Vegas team. Derek, please read.

Enable the "Adjust level from studio RGB to computer RGB" option even for a small Video preview.

And believe me, this case will end once and for all.

Sounds understandable, but when I render following test chart (0-255)

with Vegas to AVC the output is 16-235 everything below and above is full black and full white in my PCplayer and also on my TV. Do I render this test chart with my other NLE (Powerdirector) to AVC everything is correct also the ranges 0-16 and 235-255 are visible both on the same PCplayer and TV. The only way to get an correct AVC render with Vegas is to attach a Computer to Studio RGB level.

I'm struggling with this since my cameras (DJI Osmo Pocket and Gopro Hero7) record in 0-255.

Sounds understandable, but when I render following test chart (0-255)

with Vegas to AVC the output is 16-235 everything below and above is full black and full white in my PCplayer and also on my TV.

Did you mean - when you render this image to AVC, the values change from 0-255 to 16-235?

I'm sorry but I'm not a native English :-)

@pierre-k

No, that is incorrect. Vegas' native preview space is 0-255 RGB. Throwing a stupid Dynamic Contrast display adapter switch as a decoy just proves that two wrongs do not make a right. And just why on earth are you introducing Nvidia hardware encoder levels override into a Vegas discussion?? Are you deliberately confusing the issue? This is just disingenuous nonsense.

Players expect compliant 16-235 YUV levels, not 0-255. Vegas will deliver nominal 0-255 levels as displayed unless you tell it to deliver 16-235. Or something else. Those are the facts. There are reasons for that, not to be found at your and and the OP's consumer comprehension levels. Those facts and reasons are at your fingertips if only you will work hard to raise your comprehension levels. Vegas Professional is not a consumer nonlinear editor. If you want Premiere, buy Premiere.

Many professional codecs are not YUV 16-235. Many professional codecs are RGB 0-255. What are you going to do then? Would you Cripple Vegas professional producers by taking away 16% of their total dynamic range just for your soccer mom "convenience" feature? Forget it.

Now I am done.

https://www.vegascreativesoftware.info/us/forum/vegas-pro-levels-last-and-final-1--120319/

https://www.vegascreativesoftware.info/us/forum/pc-to-tv-levels-a-comedy-of-errors--107325/

Now I am done.

I'm not a fan of Premiere. Please don't offer it to me anymore.

There are many users who want to see in Vegas Video Preview what their work will look like in many players, Youtube, etc.

It seems logical to me that the option "Adjust level from studio RGB to computer RGB" should be valid for Video Preview in a small window.
 
Nothing more.
Of course, you will never turn on this option, but many of us do.

People then stop asking so stupidly and constantly.
Just answer them - turn on Adjust level from studio RGB to computer RGB.

And you will sleep peacefully.
Believe me!

Vegas is a software of unlimited possibilities.
Don't make it a mantra for Hollywood studios.
Because they use Avid and Adobe.

Good night :-)

Deliberately confusing an external monitor Graphics setting with native Vegas levels settings being discussed is flawed logic (Equivocation Fallacy) that just doesn't work with me. You see, I'm a teacher. If you use it, you deserve what you get.

Why don't the numbers work with you?

There are reasons for that, not to be found at your and and the OP's consumer comprehension levels.

@Musicvid Hey, can you explain why more professional, mainstream, and widely recognised video editing softwares like Apple FCP, Adobe Premiere, AVID, Davinci Resolve, Edius, Autodesk Flame, Hitfilm Pro, Lightworks, Cinelerra and so on all auto convert picture and video's preview to 0-255? Are their developer stupid or sick?

I own Premiere and the preview is so flawed by bad flags that I don't use it.

As for your "false dichotomy" trap (Are their developer stupid or sick?), did I mention that nonsense doesn't work with me? Are you calling the Vegas developers "stupid or sick?"

Sorry, I've been tap-dancing with rude, reluctant learners longer than I care to. School is out.

But before you leave, write 100 times, "Vegas Preview displays native RGB 0-255."

Rock-c, this debate has gone on long enough and getting nowhere fast. All suggestions has been offered to you and yet you simply end up being rude and condescending..... Why not then migrate to one of the Professional editors you mentioned above!

No! We are stupid: I definitively, perhaps also Musicvid.

We try to tell you people the ABC of video-editing in Vegaspro with its preview-properties, the difference between video and computer color levels and, what you should take by the coding/transcoding at output...instead of trying to understand you argue with Nvidia, AVID, Davinci and Edius...you should mention Einstein!

I apologise due to the different spacetime.

I do somewhat agree with some of the points in the post. The fact that the preview window doesn't represent the rendered/final output colors is quite asinine.

The solution is add a studio to computer filter to the preview window when editing to see the actual colors/contrast of your final product when editing.
 

Then remove that filter prior to rendering.
 

And ya and if you have 0-255 content. You have to add the ”computer to studio” levels proir to rendering. 😅

I for one think this should all be done automatically. If the vegas team would implement the below 2 guidelines. These long drawn out threads would stop.
 

1. The preview should match you output

2. 0-255 content should automatically render with the correct levels.
 

But Longislander surely the Preview DOES match your output (apart from a problem mentioned in another post with one particular codec). Your output is 0-255. If you drag your rendered file into a Vegas timeline it should look the same as in Preview. But as many have tried to explain most players work on 16-235 which is why you need to apply Computer RGB to Studio RGB to make it APPEAR correctly in players.

It’s not one particular Codec; it’s everything? The FAQ says it itself. “To see what you get in preview you must add studio to computer levels”.

Vegas should do this by default.

0-255 content with the way vegas stands you must add “ Computer to studio levels“ to prevent blown out video prior to rendering. (Which by the way the only way to see that it would be blown out it by using “studio to computer for preview) 😅😂
 

Which FAQ?

https://www.vegascreativesoftware.info/us/forum/vegas-pro-faqs-and-troubleshooting-guides--104787/

#24

https://www.vegascreativesoftware.info/us/forum/faq-why-does-my-video-have-more-contrast-than-the-vegas-preview--104567/

Thanks. I had found it.

Nick, of course, is referring to the problem that arises because most players work on 16-235 range. They display 0-255 files with increased contrast. This is because they show below 16 as black and above 235 as white. So you need to apply a SRGB to CRGB adjustment to see how they will display your video. But as Nick points out you need to remove it before rendering, otherwise you will get a double contrast effect.

Alternatively as you stated "0-255 content with the way vegas stands you must add “ Computer to studio levels“ to prevent blown out video prior to rendering". But the "blow out" is not caused by rendering it is caused by the way players work on SRGB level. Adding Computer to Studio levels avoids this blowout by producing a file with 16-235 range which players "stretch" out to 0-255.

I'm probably repeating what has already been said but this thread appears to be going around in circles.

Rec 709 levels are defined as 16-235.

No GUI in ANY NLE is considered an accurate way to monitor and grade due to the uncontrolled and unpredicatable signal path (e.g GPU settings, OS settings, print colour management software profiles, etc.) For video work you need to use a broadcast monitor (i.e. Flanders Scientific, etc.) with clean output device (Blackmagic Decklink, AJA, etc.) Anything else is a compromise... which is OK as a choice, but atleast be aware that you are making that choice.

These kind of inaccurate, tail-chasing "discussions" are present, ad-nauseum, in every NLE forum, including Davinci Resolve - where the reminder that the GUI is NOT ACCURATE is repeated often.

How should I interpret following H.264 mp4 renders of my earlier shown test chart by three different NLE's?

The preview of each NLE shows the full 0-255 range. Means I can see the differences in the 0-16 range as in the 235-255 range. Only the render from Vegas (first video) gives me not the result of what I expected and wanted as seen in my preview. The other two renders are from Powerdirector and Davinci Resolve.

Did you apply a computer to studio levels filter to the vegas video before rendering? I assume that would fix it.