Supported DV Card(s) and DV Recompression

crown2020 wrote on 6/23/2020, 11:25 PM

Greetings to all this evening. I'm looking for a dv card to capture analog video. I'm looking for a good card supported by Vegas Pro 17. My understanding is that Vegas Pro only captures using fire wire? The os is Windows 10 Pro. It would be nice if the card could output to mp4 as part of the capture process. The more work the card can handle at the hardware level, and the less my pc has to do, the better.

Also, will Vegas Pro 17 re compress a dv clip captured by such a card? I guess I should say that I DO NOT use Dvd Architect. I've read some info on the do's and don't's to achieve non-re compression using this software. DVDA is not for me. I use Vegasaur to author my Dvd's.

Thanks to all, in advance, for your time and recommendations. I look forward to your response(s).

Comments

fifonik wrote on 6/24/2020, 1:38 AM

Usually people capture and save video as uncompresser/lossless/low compressed that can easily be edited then edit and only then render mp4. Encoding to mp4 is resource expensive task and if capture program doing this, it should be done in realtime so usually fast profiles are used that is not good from quality point of view. I do not recommend you to capture and encode it to mp4 (or use any other resource expensive encoder at the capture stage).

It is absolutely not important to find a card the supported by Vegas.

If you capture and save as mp4, VP will re-compress.

If you never did this, I'd recommend you to find a company that can capture your sources. Then you will do editing as you like.

Last changed by fifonik on 6/24/2020, 1:43 AM, changed a total of 2 times.

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JN- wrote on 6/24/2020, 6:03 AM

@crown2020

This is what I did as well as getting a small percentage of tapes captured to near lossless, not sure thats worth it over the DV25 if you are only doing a single conversion from the captured DV25 in project to finished mp4.

 

I captured my vhs tapes using the Vegas capture software.

I had an old JVC mini DV camcorder that takes line input.

I purchased a PCI-E firewire card for my PC.

I connected the VHS player OUT to the JVC DV line IN and then I connected the JVC camcorder Firewire OUT to the Firewire card IN on the PC.  Note, leave mini DV without tape, put in play mode, enable line-in in the DV camcorder menu.  In the Vegas capture software, under options/preferences disable/un-check “Enable DV device control “.

 

The files saved are a fixed standard DV25 .avi.  Because of going through the electronics of the Mini DV camcorder the result is superior than the poorer, usually USB, digital capture devices.

 

If you have, or can purchase an old DV camcorder with line in its the way to go.

 

JVC-GR-DVP9

To use the JVC camcorder as passthrough... i.e. output of VCR to JVC camcorder input and then JVC camcorder output to PC firewire input.

 

In JVC menu set ...

AV S-IN to ON

In Vegas set “Device Control” to disabled.

Remove tape from JVC.

Set JVC to “Play” mode

 

Firewire card ... https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B002VA84E6/ref=pe_3187911_189395841_TE_dp_1

 

“TEXAS INSTRUMENTS XIO2200A CHIPSET WITH ADDITIONNAL POWER PLUG FOR A RELIABLE FIREWIRE SIGNAL”.

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john_dennis wrote on 6/24/2020, 6:20 AM

I used and still have an ACEDVIO PCI card. I haven't used it since Windows 10 and Vegas 17. Other options would be the Canopus ADVC-110 or ADVC-300. You would have to look on ebay for used ones.

Video Example:

crown2020 wrote on 6/24/2020, 7:51 AM

@john_dennis, Are there any differences, besides price, I'd need to consider when deciding on the Canopus ADVC-110 vs the ADVC-300? Also, I think BOTH these units have a built in TBC. You may correct me if I am wrong. I'd also like to know if either of these units have other noise filters. The box on some eBay listings just rant and rave about how good there codec is, as far as i can tell. Thanks for your previous response. Your video example looked great. I'm guessing it was captured with the card you mentioned that you still have. Last thing, If I have a pro deck that already has a TBC and noise reduction, would I even need one of these units? Would I in effect be doing double filtering that would cause any issues?

Musicvid wrote on 6/24/2020, 8:15 AM

OK, since Dot posted, I feel enabled.

You need a 1394 FireWire card with a TI Chipset and the Windows Legacy Drivers.

crown2020 wrote on 6/24/2020, 8:32 AM

@Former user, Thanks for the info. Is there any harm in having a tape deck with noise filters and tbc AND using an external unit like the ADVC-300?

Musicvid wrote on 6/24/2020, 12:55 PM

Looks like either would work, but possibly only on the 1394a port.

Make sure seller has a good rep so you can return it if it doesn't work. These things are a bit finicky.

Musicvid wrote on 6/24/2020, 1:09 PM

TTTT, normally I just plug it into my set-top dvd recorder because it has good hardware noise reduction.

No problem with quality, but no TBC either. Are you sure you need it?

crown2020 wrote on 6/24/2020, 10:38 PM

@Musicvid, Yes, I do believe I need TBC. At times, I digitize generational copies of VHS. Some are master copies of VHS. In either case, I at times, run across video that looks like your looking through pond water. My Videonics Digital Video Mixer has a built in tbc that usually does the job. However, it does absolutely nothing in the department of other noise filters. I

f you were referring to a pro VHS tape deck, I don't have one. I'm in the trenches with, I think, a 4 head, RCA, Hi-Fi unit. I would be interested in any pro deck you could recommend. I understand certain JVC and Sony decks work well, even in a set top style. It needs to be tough. I'm planning on starting a small transfer service. I'm averaging 30 tapes per order or 60 hours run time per order.

On a separate note, in this post I see the following above and posted by myself:

"@Former user, Thanks for the info. Is there any harm in having a tape deck with noise filters and tbc AND using an external unit like the ADVC-300?"

Looks like someone bailed on the Vegas Community. I swear this thread had a user name this morning.

Thank you as always for your input. I appreciate you.

 

 

Howard-Vigorita wrote on 6/26/2020, 3:16 PM

Is there any harm in having a tape deck with noise filters and tbc AND using an external unit like the ADVC-300?

@crown2020 The ADVC-300 has always worked quite well for me transferring vhs to my computer via fireware ports. Using its super-vhs input connected to a jvc vhs player gives terrific results.

Cameras: Z-Cam E2 classic, Canon XF305, JVC GV-LS2, Canon 6D w/L-glass line.
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crown2020 wrote on 6/27/2020, 10:59 AM

@Howard-Vigorita, Hi there Howard. Thanks for your response. I had a trusted source recently tell me not to get hung up on "Commercial" SVHS tape decks. He says they have more points of failure than a good quality SVHS tape deck. About 10x more in his example that he gave to me. He also says that many of them simply use a lot of the same "guts" anyways.

So, may I ask what JVC model you used to get these "terrific results"? And, does your jvc have tbc and noise filters built into it. Thank you in advance for your time and response.

crown2020 wrote on 6/27/2020, 11:07 AM

@Musicvid, I ordered this card as it would arrive a little sooner than the ones I previously sent you links to.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07R5CB55N/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I hope it works. It also has it's own power source. Believe it or not, this is my first fire wire card. I'm new to this old technology. I can't believe Vegas Pro still supports it, but it's sounding like I will be glad they do.

crown2020 wrote on 6/27/2020, 11:15 AM

@john_dennis, I bought it. ( ADVC-300?). It arrives this Tuesday June 30, 2020. I'm going to throw some crappy tapes at it and see what it can and can't do. Thanks for the recommendation.

crown2020 wrote on 6/27/2020, 11:23 AM

@fifonik, "If you never did this, I'd recommend you to find a company that can capture your sources. Then you will do editing as you like."

And spoil this golden opportunity to learn. Ummmmmm, no. 😲

Thank you for all the previous input you took time to offer.

Musicvid wrote on 6/27/2020, 11:25 AM

Do let us know how it works out.

Do have your tape heads and transport cleaned at a camera shop before beginning. You will be amazed.

Also amazing is the AVDC300 @john_dennis recommends. I think you will be quite pleased with your purchase.

And spoil this golden opportunity to learn. Ummmmmm, no. 😲

Gotta love that attitude. Feel free to post back with examples of your work.

FayFen wrote on 6/27/2020, 11:46 AM

I strongly recommend to capture with battery only as with mains power one can eazly 'burn' the camera DV terminal, if connected wrongly. you should google about that.

crown2020 wrote on 6/27/2020, 1:03 PM

@FayFen, I have never seen an SVHS set top that solely runs on battery sir. No, not even one. 😁

crown2020 wrote on 6/27/2020, 1:09 PM

@Musicvid, "Do have your tape heads and transport cleaned at a camera shop before beginning. You will be amazed"

Now this I actually know how to do. I've been doing that since the 1980's. 😄 But just the same, thanks for the reminder. I'm always amazed at how many people forget to do this and still expect awesome video.

I am very happy to hear that you agree that the AVDC300 was a wise purchase. I really do value your opinion. Thank you for responding back. I'll post some comparing vids as soon as I can. I don't have all the equipment yet. Again, many thanks.

Musicvid wrote on 6/27/2020, 1:34 PM

I always agree with what @john_dennis says. Although I may "look" like the chairman of the board, he's the real deal.

;?)

john_dennis wrote on 6/27/2020, 6:08 PM

@crown2020 @Musicvid

Sorry. I didn't forget about you. I've been ignoring you while I reorganize my hard drives.

I want to recycle everything less than 2 TB. There are lots of them when you count the ones in machines. De-duping is a pain when the data has gone through many generations of hard drives as I tend to buy a new one and let the old one simmer until the new one has proved its mettle. Once a drive is in the canister, it's easy to forget it existed. The worst ones are the drives from my work life. Not to be confused with my real life.

Yesterday, it was coffee. Today, it's been beer.

Musicvid wrote on 6/27/2020, 6:19 PM

To requote you, "You can check out any time you like, but you can never leave."

JN- wrote on 6/27/2020, 7:26 PM

@Musicvid Hotel Kalifornia, I was there last December, 5 weeks, had the same problem couldn’t get out.

Then they told me I was in Hospital, not sure if I really believe them😂

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Benchmarking thread

Codec Render Quality tables

---------------------------------------------

PC ... Corsair case, own build ...

CPU .. i9 9900K, iGpu UHD 630

Memory .. 32GB DDR4

Graphics card .. MSI RTX 2080 ti

Graphics driver .. latest studio

PSU .. Corsair 850i

Mboard .. Asus Z390 Code

 

Laptop ... (Acer Predator G9-793-77AC)

CPU .. i7-6700HQ Skylake-H

Memory ..32 GB DDR4, was previously 16 GB

Graphics card .. Nvidia GTX 1070

Graphics driver .. latest studio