Vegas ProRes - smart render Question?

Musicvid wrote on 7/22/2020, 2:25 PM

Nope.

john_dennis wrote on 7/22/2020, 3:06 PM

If you could use XAVC-I, it will not re-compress edits that are cuts only.

General
Complete name : C:\Users\John\Desktop\XAVC-I First Pass.MXF
Format : MXF
Format version : 1.3
Format profile : OP-1a
Format settings : Closed / Complete
File size : 270 MiB
Duration : 20 s 20 ms
Overall bit rate : 113 Mb/s
Encoded date : 2020-07-22 19:47:43.000
Writing application : SONY Vegas 14.0.0.270
Writing library : Sony MXF Development Kit (Win32) 4.8.0.113.1

Video
ID : 2
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile : High 4:2:2 Intra@L5.1
Format settings, CABAC : No
Format settings, GOP : N=1
Format settings, wrapping mode : Frame
Codec ID : 0D01030102106001-0401020201323001
Duration : 20 s 20 ms
Bit rate : 114 Mb/s
Maximum bit rate : 300 Mb/s
Width : 3 840 pixels
Height : 2 160 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate : 29.970 (30000/1001) FPS
Standard : Component
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:2
Bit depth : 10 bits
Scan type : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.457
Stream size : 266 MiB (99%)
Color range : Limited
Color primaries : BT.709
Transfer characteristics : BT.709
Matrix coefficients : BT.709

Audio #1
ID : 3
Format : PCM
Format settings : Little
Format settings, wrapping mode : Frame (AES)
Codec ID : 0D01030102060300-0402020101000000
Duration : 20 s 20 ms
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 768 kb/s
Channel(s) : 1 channel
Sampling rate : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate : 29.970 FPS (1601.6 SPF)
Bit depth : 16 bits
Stream size : 1.83 MiB (1%)
Locked : Yes

Audio #2
ID : 4
Format : PCM
Format settings : Little
Format settings, wrapping mode : Frame (AES)
Codec ID : 0D01030102060300-0402020101000000
Duration : 20 s 20 ms
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 768 kb/s
Channel(s) : 1 channel
Sampling rate : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate : 29.970 FPS (1601.6 SPF)
Bit depth : 16 bits
Stream size : 1.83 MiB (1%)
Locked : Yes

Other #1
ID : 1-Material
Type : Time code
Format : MXF TC
Frame rate : 29.970 (30000/1001) FPS
Time code of first frame : 00:00:00;00
Time code settings : Material Package
Time code, striped : Yes

Other #2
ID : 1-Source
Type : Time code
Format : MXF TC
Frame rate : 29.970 (30000/1001) FPS
Time code of first frame : 00:00:00;00
Time code settings : Source Package
Time code, striped : Yes

Other #3
Type : Time code
Format : SMPTE TC
Muxing mode : SDTI
Frame rate : 29.970 (30000/1001) FPS
Time code of first frame : 00:00:00;00

don-c wrote on 7/22/2020, 8:55 PM

Thank you guys for the input. Concerning XAVC I, I rendered out a sample and I rendered out a Intermediate 422 and gave to a MAC user and when we compared them and there was a strange anomaly.

The XAVC I picture was a wee bit shorter at the bottom. meaning compressed in picture height, but. not evenly compressed. side by side the top third of the Prores and XAVC were identical but the lower 2/3rds of the XAVC I was progressively more compressed. compressed (meaning in picture Height). The further down the pic the more distortion. ? so if you were cutting be tween pictures it seems to jump at the bottom, but the top you see no change, in the clanging of shot. They were rendered identical settings and clip in a batch render. Theoretically switching between the two identically rendered clips you should see no movement of identical shots. i would expect maybe some color shift but not distortion in the picture. So I am afraid the XAVC I to send files to a mac user. I do not have a clue the cause. So I guess we will fly with Intermediate 422 HQ

Howard-Vigorita wrote on 7/22/2020, 11:05 PM

@don-c Any chance you mismatched the frame size on the xavc-I? Just tried to duplicate the issue and the only way I could do it was to render a 4096x2160 source clip as 3840x2160 (or vice versa) . I compared them by creating a source clip with the small checkerboard media generator, rendered it, put it on the timeline and then did a bunch of test renders. Then threw them all onto the timeline and cross-faded them. All perfect except the mismatched clip which generates interference patterns during the on cross-fade. Like this:

Fwiw, Xavc-I is 10-bit. Magix-I is not.

don-c wrote on 7/23/2020, 12:52 PM

I cannot say it was not human error. So I will redo and see if it repeats because I deleted the other. will post the results (if it repeats) so maybe we can figure the problem.

john_dennis wrote on 7/23/2020, 1:27 PM

@don-c @Howard-Vigorita

I created a 32 bit UHD project in Vegas 17-452 with checkerboard pattern and rendered using the Magix Intermediate and XAVC-I. Placing the rendered files back on the Vegas Pro timeline and using compositing difference, I could see no significant difference in the Videoscopes. I'll make no statement about what a Mac user might see.

Complete name : C:\Users\John\Desktop\XAVC-I.MXF
Format : MXF
Format version : 1.3
Format profile : OP-1a
Format settings : Closed / Complete
File size : 171 MiB
Duration : 10 s 10 ms
Overall bit rate : 143 Mb/s
Encoded date : 2020-07-23 18:16:10.000
Writing application : SONY Vegas 13.0
Writing library : Sony MXF Development Kit (Win32) 4.8.0.113.1

Video
ID : 2
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile : High 4:2:2 Intra@L5.1
Format settings, CABAC : No
Format settings, GOP : N=1
Format settings, wrapping mode : Frame
Codec ID : 0D01030102106001-0401020201323001
Duration : 10 s 10 ms
Bit rate : 142 Mb/s
Maximum bit rate : 300 Mb/s
Width : 3 840 pixels
Height : 2 160 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate : 29.970 (30000/1001) FPS
Standard : Component
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:2
Bit depth : 10 bits
Scan type : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.570
Stream size : 169 MiB (99%)
Color range : Limited
Color primaries : BT.709
Transfer characteristics : BT.709
Matrix coefficients : BT.709

Audio #1
ID : 3
Format : PCM
Format settings : Little
Format settings, wrapping mode : Frame (AES)
Codec ID : 0D01030102060300-0402020101000000
Duration : 10 s 10 ms
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 768 kb/s
Channel(s) : 1 channel
Sampling rate : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate : 29.970 FPS (1601.6 SPF)
Bit depth : 16 bits
Stream size : 938 KiB (1%)
Locked : Yes

Audio #2
ID : 4
Format : PCM
Format settings : Little
Format settings, wrapping mode : Frame (AES)
Codec ID : 0D01030102060300-0402020101000000
Duration : 10 s 10 ms
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 768 kb/s
Channel(s) : 1 channel
Sampling rate : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate : 29.970 FPS (1601.6 SPF)
Bit depth : 16 bits
Stream size : 938 KiB (1%)
Locked : Yes

Other #1
ID : 1-Material
Type : Time code
Format : MXF TC
Frame rate : 29.970 (30000/1001) FPS
Time code of first frame : 00:00:00;00
Time code settings : Material Package
Time code, striped : Yes

Other #2
ID : 1-Source
Type : Time code
Format : MXF TC
Frame rate : 29.970 (30000/1001) FPS
Time code of first frame : 00:00:00;00
Time code settings : Source Package
Time code, striped : Yes

Other #3
Type : Time code
Format : SMPTE TC
Muxing mode : SDTI
Frame rate : 29.970 (30000/1001) FPS
Time code of first frame : 00:00:00;00

Complete name : C:\Users\John\Desktop\Render\Magix Intermediate 422.mov
Format : QuickTime
Format/Info : Original Apple specifications
File size : 135 MiB
Duration : 10 s 10 ms
Overall bit rate mode : Constant
Overall bit rate : 113 Mb/s
Encoded date : UTC 2020-07-23 18:17:13
Tagged date : UTC 2020-07-23 18:17:13
Writing library : Apple QuickTime

Video
ID : 1
Format : ProRes
Format version : Version 1
Format profile : 422
Codec ID : apcn
Duration : 10 s 10 ms
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 111 Mb/s
Width : 3 840 pixels
Height : 2 160 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate mode : Constant
Frame rate : 29.970 (30000/1001) FPS
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:2
Scan type : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.448
Stream size : 133 MiB (99%)
Writing library : dp4
Language : English
Encoded date : UTC 2020-07-23 18:17:13
Tagged date : UTC 2020-07-23 18:17:13
Color primaries : BT.709
Transfer characteristics : BT.709
Matrix coefficients : BT.709

Audio
ID : 2
Format : PCM
Format settings : Big / Signed
Codec ID : twos
Duration : 10 s 10 ms
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 1 536 kb/s
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Sampling rate : 48.0 kHz
Bit depth : 16 bits
Stream size : 1.83 MiB (1%)
Language : English
Encoded date : UTC 2020-07-23 18:17:13
Tagged date : UTC 2020-07-23 18:17:13

don-c wrote on 7/28/2020, 9:45 PM

I did the test With Exactly the same settings and they match on the PC. but, when I open the files on a MAC THE XAVC I actually stretches down at bottom. I compared the Intermediate 422 and A CForm MOV and XAVC I they match on PC but on the MAC The XAVC I stretches down. THE CF.mov and Intermediate 422 match on mac. So I took a video of it with my Iphone of me muting the mov file track off and on so you can see the jump on the MAC. i uploaded a clip and you can see what I am saying. Notice the word "james" at the top does not change , but the word "death" at the bottom drops dramatically. I would prefer to use XAVC I because I think it is less problematic than a QT MOV with vegas? Am I correct or is that a "use to be" fact?

don-c wrote on 7/29/2020, 9:18 PM

The case is solved.

First the codec XAVC I is fine on MAC
Second I learned something NEW. It was davinchi Resolve 16 FREE version.
The differences in DR 16 FREE and STUDIO are more than the things they list, it may be a glitch in the FREE version.

Because i am not proficient on FCP X i did not actually check the clip in FCP I used a FREE installed version of DR 16. When you sent the clip I decided to try FCPX and the clips were fine! Then I tried DR16 FREE on same MAC the jump was back. Then I went to another mac with DR!6 STUDIO Paid version they worked fine. So then we install the paid version on the MAC that had the free version, the clips worked fine.

SO it is the free version of DR16 of which we had the latest update.

Thank You for your help!!!!!!

Now may i ask a question? Is XAVC I plenty good for a Three round trip of render? and if I understand correctly DR16 Vegas 17 and FCPX skip re-compressing where not necessary?

Thank You Again

Don