Youtubers | VP09 | Upscaling to 1440p | Worth it or not?

AveSatanas wrote on 12/28/2019, 8:34 PM

Hey guys, this post is NOT a promotion to my Youtube page, but it does help define this topic.

So i just started Youtubing and recording my gameplay, ive noticed that when i upload my (1920x1080) file once edited it looks like crap on Youtube but it doesnt look crap when replaying it back on VLC media player and other similar playback softwares, This means that Youtube must be doing something with my videos and as i thought it was/wasnt there fault

There is this thing called VP09 and it gets applied to your video on Youtube if

1. You have a outstanding amount of viewers or

2. You upload your videos at a res of (2560x1440)

In a nutshell if you dont have this "VP09" codec placed on your video, youtube basically "makes your footage look disgusting"

Obviously i went for option 2 as i just started Youtube like 2 days ago, so i started upscaling my (1920x1080) to 1440p and it does look alot better, in fact there was no problem BUT i really want to know from the prospective of professional Vegas Film makers if it makes sense to upscale footage.

Does Upscaling hurt quality?!, Is this VP09 just a hoax?

Im leaving a link to my Youtube so you can that (to my eyes) i see no problem with upscaling it looks fine (to me) but you may have your own personal opinion, please share your thoughts and again - This is not a promotion to my Youtube

Cheers - ave

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Comments

fr0sty wrote on 12/29/2019, 7:11 PM

It looks like you must be 1440p or higher for vp9 to work, and even if it's vp9 at the same bitrate, it's likely going to result in better looking video due to vp9 being more efficient. best bet would be to use HOS as cited above to render to a 1440p VP9, maybe then youtube wouldn't need to recompress it at all and you'd get the benefit of the more efficient codec.

Musicvid wrote on 12/29/2019, 7:57 PM

Wwaag,

Lanczos 4 already oversharpens a bit with some barely visible piping around sharp edges, so I would leave that one alone. TBH, I liked Lanczos 3 better.

No experience with Spline here.

AveSatanas wrote on 12/30/2019, 1:51 AM

i use smart upscale and render in 1440p, i dont know what all thia HOS stuff....

fr0sty wrote on 12/30/2019, 4:29 AM

HOS is Happy Otter Scripts, a collection of scripts for Vegas that open up ffmpeg's capabilities, which are far better at upscaling than Vegas' native capabilities, to Vegas users.

AveSatanas wrote on 12/31/2019, 6:22 PM

dang i must see about this HOS thing, cheers guys

wwaag wrote on 12/31/2019, 6:29 PM

@AveSatanas

Here's the website. https://tools4vegas.com/

If you are interested in VP9 encoding, the next build (to be released later this week) will also include 2-pass encoding with choice of either constant quality or average bit rate. VP9 encoding is "slow", but the results are quite good.

AveSatanas wrote on 12/31/2019, 6:34 PM

@wwaag i have no problem with getting the vp09 ive followed the bits and upscaled accordingly to youtubes recommendations its just that 1080p footage cant be vp09 unless you have a larger viewer count or you upscale - in relation to this, heres my upload settings

also thanks for the link appreciate it

AveSatanas wrote on 12/31/2019, 6:37 PM

i thought happy otter was just the name of the software....turns out theres a bunch of happy damn otters...

wwaag wrote on 12/31/2019, 7:23 PM

For an explanation of the name, see item 11 in FAQ.

wwaag wrote on 12/31/2019, 7:56 PM

Here's a demo of how to upscale to 1440 and render to VP9 in HOS.

AveSatanas wrote on 12/31/2019, 8:09 PM

woah it actuallly renders into vp09

AveSatanas wrote on 12/31/2019, 8:10 PM

General
Complete name                            : D:\Vegas Full HD\Hard Landing.mp4
Format                                   : MPEG-4
Format profile                           : Base Media / Version 2
Codec ID                                 : mp42 (isom/mp42)
File size                                : 3.74 GiB
Duration                                 : 17 min 55 s
Overall bit rate mode                    : Variable
Overall bit rate                         : 29.8 Mb/s
Encoded date                             : UTC 2020-01-01 01:03:37
Tagged date                              : UTC 2020-01-01 01:03:37

Video
ID                                       : 1
Format                                   : AVC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile                           : High@L5.1
Format settings                          : CABAC / 3 Ref Frames
Format settings, CABAC                   : Yes
Format settings, Reference frames        : 3 frames
Format settings, GOP                     : M=1, N=30
Codec ID                                 : avc1
Codec ID/Info                            : Advanced Video Coding
Duration                                 : 17 min 55 s
Bit rate                                 : 29.5 Mb/s
Width                                    : 2 560 pixels
Height                                   : 1 440 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9
Frame rate mode                          : Constant
Frame rate                               : 60.000 FPS
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
Bit depth                                : 8 bits
Scan type                                : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.133
Stream size                              : 3.70 GiB (99%)
Language                                 : English
Encoded date                             : UTC 2020-01-01 01:03:38
Tagged date                              : UTC 2020-01-01 01:03:38
Codec configuration box                  : avcC

Audio
ID                                       : 2
Format                                   : AAC LC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Audio Codec Low Complexity
Codec ID                                 : mp4a-40-2
Duration                                 : 17 min 55 s
Bit rate mode                            : Variable
Bit rate                                 : 317 kb/s
Maximum bit rate                         : 435 kb/s
Channel(s)                               : 2 channels
Channel layout                           : L R
Sampling rate                            : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate                               : 46.875 FPS (1024 SPF)
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Stream size                              : 40.7 MiB (1%)
Language                                 : English
Encoded date                             : UTC 2020-01-01 01:03:38
Tagged date                              : UTC 2020-01-01 01:03:38

AveSatanas wrote on 12/31/2019, 8:11 PM

is there a codec for rendering vp09 in vp15? just like what you did @wwaag

fr0sty wrote on 12/31/2019, 8:25 PM

Happy Otter Scripts - www.tools4vegas.com, sign up and download it.

wwaag wrote on 12/31/2019, 9:58 PM

@AveSatanas

is there a codec for rendering vp09 in vp15? just like what you did @wwaag

No. There are two issues with Vegas. First you cannot upscale with your choice of resizers; and second, you cannot render using the VP9 codec. Even V17 doesn't support VP9 encoding.

AveSatanas wrote on 12/31/2019, 10:10 PM

dang thats interesting, ill give hos a try, im pretty new so itll take quite a bit

Howard-Vigorita wrote on 1/16/2020, 8:42 PM

Fwiw, there is an open source vp9 codec and connector from voukoder.org that I've tried on vp17 and 16 and it does work for crf tweeking of vp9. Its just kind of slow and apparently still in development. Also has alternate h.264, 265, and ProRes codecs built in that seem a little further along. For YouTube purposes upscaling with Magix h264 presets to 1440p is just a quicker route for me, even though the output file is larger. Btw, my channel has about 30k subscribers but when I upload 1080p it always comes back avc1. But when I upscale h264 to 1440p, it comes back vp09 on all resolutions from 1440p down to 144p.

DaddygamerYT wrote on 8/10/2020, 8:24 PM

hi guys, majority of my videos on youtube was compressed to avc and only recently i managed to get youtube to compress my video to the VP09 codec. My videos was all recorded in 1080p 60fps. If i upload without upscaling to 1440p youtube will automatically render my video to the avc codec which looks really bad and pixelated. The only thing i did was to render out my video in 1440p 60fps 15000kbps bitrate and tada! i got VP09 and yes quality is definitely better tho file size is slightly larger and upload to youtube is slightly longer. It took a total of 1 1/2 days for youtube to process the video fully. Worth the wait if you ask me.

(Not self promoting in any way)

Musicvid wrote on 8/10/2020, 8:52 PM

and yes quality is definitely better

I wouldn't know because you have given us nothing to compare to this 1440p version. However, we have tests to determine objectively what differences may exist. If you you would care to link your 1080p Youtube version and upload your original file to Drive of Dropbox, I'll be glad to run some numbers for you.

Former user wrote on 8/10/2020, 9:40 PM

If encoded at 1080P it looks like the most common playback format on a computer is AV1 now, h.264 being a fallback for both vp9 and AV1 if device is not powerful enough to play it, or devices without AV1/VP9 hardware decode that run on battery. Many more devices would decode VP9 compared to AV1. AV1 and VP9 might be comparable, I haven't checked myself but based on file sizes they should compete

Random video encoded a few days ago to youtube

1080p h.264 336.9mb
1080p vp9 312mb
1080p av1 270.1mb

We know that AV1 is said to be 30% more efficient than h.265 and VP9 is not quite as good as h.265, however the difference in file sizes between AV1 and VP9 is only 15%, which could mean AV1 has superior video quality. I think your method in forcing VP9 is probably good, but I'd like to compare AV1 to VP9. VP9 should allow for highest quality on most devices, except maybe computers, newer streaming devices and tv's that support hardware AV1 decode

Also you might be interested in a post I did about an unusual high bitrate vp9 video I found on Youtube. I never bothered trying to initiate the highbitrate vp9 encoding as it probably was YT testing or a bug

https://www.vegascreativesoftware.info/us/forum/unique-encoding-setting-activates-very-high-quality-youtube-video--122872/

EDIT:I just checked with FireFox and all 1080p videos are in VP9 even though apparently AV1 decoding was turned on by default on FireFox over a year ago, Chrome chooses AV1 over VP9