Cutting and deleting efficiency: VEGAS vs Premiere

lan-mLMC wrote on 5/7/2020, 10:11 PM

Just do some experiments and find some improvements. Emphasis is the suggestion which may make VEGAS Pro more excellent.

 

Cutting and deleting:

VGEAS

Premiere

Suggestion: When finishing deleting event, VEGAS needs to reselect next event for cutting so that it will not cut other track's event accidentally . This is less efficient than Premiere. Therefore, VEGAS team had better make VEGAS automatically select next event when finishing deleting previous event.

 

Continuous cutting:

Premiere

VEGAS

Suggestion: VEGAS' continuous cutting need mouseup but Premiere needn't. This is less efficient than Premiere. Therefore, VEGAS team had better make VEGAS be able to continuously cut when mousedown.

 

Ripple delete:

Premiere

VEGAS

Suggestion: VEGAS' deleting in Auto Ripple mode still remians many gaps. This is less efficient than Premiere. Therefore, VEGAS team had better make VEGAS' deleting remains no gap in Auto Ripple mode.

 

Maybe these suggestions would help make VEGAS Pro more improved. Forgive poor English.

Comments

alifftudm95 wrote on 5/8/2020, 12:01 AM

The first one is good, I really annoy how VEGAS often accidentally cut different track

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fifonik wrote on 5/8/2020, 12:13 AM

Cutting and deleting:

Do you know that you can use Alt + [ and Alt + ] to delete at the begining/end? You should learn these hotkeys and use them when you'd like to "split and delete" in VP. They are the second useful for me (after Space/Esc) in VP :)

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NLE: Vegas Pro [Edit] 11, 12, 13, 15, 17

lan-mLMC wrote on 5/8/2020, 12:21 AM

Cutting and deleting:

Do you know that you can use Alt + [ and Alt + ] to delete at the begining/end? You should learn these hotkeys and use them when you'd like to "split and delete" in VP. They are the second useful for me (after Space/Esc) in VP :)

Hello,  "Alt + ]" will delete all following part of this event which still contains many many useful scenes.

And "Alt + [" may be a good advanced method. But it doesn't impede that the most common method "S+select+delect" need improvement. Because it may be the method which many user are using.

Kinvermark wrote on 5/8/2020, 12:37 AM

@lan-mLMC

You are merely presenting ONE specific editing case that supports your thesis.

My timelines NEVER look like that; they are always crowded with many short clips. The ALT [,] commands are actually quite useful and fast, as are other hotkey commands.

Alternatively, you can use the trimmer to hover scrub and load the timeline - nothing in PPro, Resolve, etc is as fast as this. Really, splitting and deleting sections is for "noob" editors. :)

Remember: there are many, many editing situations and styles.

lan-mLMC wrote on 5/8/2020, 12:47 AM

@lan-mLMC

You are merely presenting ONE specific editing case that supports your thesis.

My timelines NEVER look like that; they are always crowded with many short clips. The ALT [,] commands are actually quite useful and fast, as are other hotkey commands.

Alternatively, you can use the trimmer to hover scrub and load the timeline - nothing in PPro, Resolve, etc is as fast as this. Really, splitting and deleting sections is for "noob" editors. :)

Remember: there are many, many editing situations and styles.

Hello, "Alt + [" is a good method to avoid relecting event. But it doesn't mean the most common method "S+select+delect" doesn't need improvements.

Actually, many new users or even some old users are using "S+select+delect".

As long as the method needs to be improved, the improvements are necessary.

Kinvermark wrote on 5/8/2020, 1:14 AM

Making any alternations to editing behavior is a really big deal, as this can seriously affect existing users. Sure, a re-think may be in order, but only after comprehensive, careful study should any changes be made. Piece-meal "one offs" from single forum users is not a good idea. Sorry, but I cannot support you here.

lan-mLMC wrote on 5/8/2020, 1:24 AM

Making any alternations to editing behavior is a really big deal, as this can seriously affect existing users. Sure, a re-think may be in order, but only after comprehensive, careful study should any changes be made. Piece-meal "one offs" from single forum users is not a good idea. Sorry, but I cannot support you here.

Hello, this post dose not advocate : use "S+select+delect" and don't use "Alt + [".

This post just appeals to improving some existing operations such as: "S+select+delect" need automatically select next event. Don't misunderstand the main idea.

More user-friendly improvements will attract more new users and expand VEGAS' market share.

vkmast wrote on 5/8/2020, 1:38 AM

As long as the method needs to be improved, the improvements are necessary.

More user-friendly improvements will attract more new users and expand VEGAS' market share.

I'm sure your advice will be appreciated by the dev team.

pierre-k wrote on 5/8/2020, 3:44 AM

Just do some experiments and find some improvements.

 

Cutting and deleting:

VGEAS

Premiere

 

Cutting and Deleting:

I have a better way than both NLEs together.
The cut will be made only on the events that the mouse cursor will be on.
The event may not be active (yellow).

and could choose to have the right or left event active after the cut.

 

Continuous cutting:

Yes, I understand. Vegas can't do this like that.
But why are you constantly moving your playing head????
I never work like this.

My way of working with the keyboard shortcuts S and Ctrl + X:

 

Ripple delete:

I completely agree with you.

 

Mostly I don't like Vegas adapting to other NLEs in editing.
But your suggestions along with my great idea.
Mainly Ripple delete.

 

Vegas vs Premiere
The premiere still can't make an easy transition between events like Vegas.
And no other NLE allows you to move the playing head freely throughout the timeline. Upstairs only. Vegas yes.

 

That's why I like Vegas.

3POINT wrote on 5/8/2020, 4:10 AM

I do not recognize an editing situation where two or even more video tracks are stack on each other while cutting them, since only the top track is visible in the preview.

For my editing workflow I changed the shortcuts Alt+[ and Alt+] to the A and D key (german keyboard) which are left and right from the S key, which makes the necessary cuts quick and fast just with my left hand. My right hand controls the mouse. These shortcuts are also adapted by my shuttle.

lan-mLMC wrote on 5/8/2020, 4:15 AM

Continuous cutting:

Yes, I understand. Vegas can't do this like that.
But why are you constantly moving your playing head????
I never work like this.

Hello, Continuous cutting without mouseup has many advantages. Such as:

In a short event containing several scenes needed to be separate, continuous cutting is the most optimal method;

Once mouseup for cutting event in VEGAS Pro, you will be hard to grasp timeline's cursor because you are easy to grasp event's edge accidently. Or to grasp timeline's cursor, you have to move your mouse down to other tracks where there is no event's edge. All these are rather inefficienter than Continuous cutting without mouseup.

 

Mostly I don't like Vegas adapting to other NLEs in editing.

As long as it can make VEGAS Pro more improved, efficient and user-friendly, everything is worthwhile.

lan-mLMC wrote on 5/8/2020, 4:18 AM

I do not recognize an editing situation where two or even more video tracks are stack on each other while cutting them, since only the top track is visible in the preview.

In complicated video project, dozens of tracks are rather common.

pierre-k wrote on 5/8/2020, 4:32 AM

I do not recognize an editing situation where two or even more video tracks are stack on each other while cutting them, since only the top track is visible in the preview.

In complicated video project, dozens of tracks are rather common.

Yes.
Of course, such situations exist.
Mostly a combination of captions, graphics and in Media generators.

pierre-k wrote on 5/8/2020, 4:37 AM
Once mouseup for cutting event in VEGAS Pro, you will be hard to grasp timeline's cursor because you are easy to grasp event's edge accidently. Or to grasp timeline's cursor, you have to....

Now I tried again.
If you let go of the game head and want to catch it again, it's hell.
If you keep holding it and moving it like in my video, that's good.

But as I say. I don't work like this.

3POINT wrote on 5/8/2020, 5:05 AM

I do not recognize an editing situation where two or even more video tracks are stack on each other while cutting them, since only the top track is visible in the preview.

In complicated video project, dozens of tracks are rather common.

Yes.
Of course, such situations exist.
Mostly a combination of captions, graphics and in Media generators.

Yes indeed, but trimming I do before all other edits like inserting graphics etc. I do also complicated projects, not directly with dozens of tracks but sometimes with a dozen or more tracks. But than I use the already trimmed events on the different tracks as placeholders, I don't trim further I only fine-tune with the slip tool.

By the way did you guys take a look at the split trim tool.

Last changed by 3POINT on 5/8/2020, 5:18 AM, changed a total of 2 times.

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fifonik wrote on 5/8/2020, 6:18 AM

And "Alt + [" may be a good advanced method. But it doesn't impede that the most common method "S+select+delect" need improvement.

Sorry, I did not get it. Alt + [ do exactly what you doing in your first demo: split and then delete the part that on the left. So in my opinion in the first situation you need to do S for the first cut then Alt + [ for the second cut etc. No any selecting with mouse needed.

Last changed by fifonik on 5/8/2020, 6:23 AM, changed a total of 1 times.

Camcorder: Panasonic X920

Desktop: MB: MSI B450M MORTAR TITANIUM, CPU: AMD Ryzen 3700X (not OC), RAM: G'Skill 16 GB DDR4@3200 (not OC), Graphics card: MSI RX580 8GB (factory OC), SSD: Samsung 970 Evo+ NVMe 500MB (OS), HDDs: Seagate & Toshiba 2TB, OS: Windows 10 Pro 1909

NLE: Vegas Pro [Edit] 11, 12, 13, 15, 17

lan-mLMC wrote on 5/8/2020, 7:33 AM

And "Alt + [" may be a good advanced method. But it doesn't impede that the most common method "S+select+delect" need improvement.

Sorry, I did not get it. Alt + [ do exactly what you doing in your first demo: split and then delete the part that on the left. So in my opinion in the first situation you need to do S for the first cut then Alt + [ for the second cut etc. No any selecting with mouse needed.

I mean that almost new users and a few old users are using "S+select+delect" mode. Improving it will make VEGAS Pro more improved, efficient and user-friendly. It is helpful to expand market share.

That is to say, I'm not for my own operation habit. I'm for VEGAS Pro's market share.

pierre-k wrote on 5/8/2020, 7:45 AM

I have been asking for 3 years, for example, to select events with the right mouse button and other suggestions. So far without success. I don't believe the team will hear your suggestions.

They have more important priorities. Gpu support, stability and screen capture.

Dexcon wrote on 5/8/2020, 9:18 AM

Each NLE has its advantages and disadvantages as does any competitive product on the market (e.g cars, TVs, white goods, etc). Unfortunately, I get the feeling on this post that the aim is - under the guise of improving Vegas Pro (which obviously is always a good thing) - to get Vegas Pro to be a replica of Premiere Pro and thus avoid the user of having to pay yearly for a subscription to Premier possibly lest they lose the use of Premier if they stop paying for the subscription.

An age old approach to marketing (any product) is USP  - a Unique Selling Proposition (did you watch Mad Men? - and I did work for many, many years in advertising). If Vegas Pro becomes an exact copy of Premiere, it then has no USP. Conclusion, just buy Premier if it provides you with your preferred workflow.

lan-mLMC wrote on 5/8/2020, 9:51 AM

Each NLE has its advantages and disadvantages as does any competitive product on the market (e.g cars, TVs, white goods, etc). Unfortunately, I get the feeling on this post that the aim is - under the guise of improving Vegas Pro (which obviously is always a good thing) - to get Vegas Pro to be a replica of Premiere Pro and thus avoid the user of having to pay yearly for a subscription to Premier possibly lest they lose the use of Premier if they stop paying for the subscription.

An age old approach to marketing (any product) is USP  - a Unique Selling Proposition (did you watch Mad Men? - and I did work for many, many years in advertising). If Vegas Pro becomes an exact copy of Premiere, it then has no USP. Conclusion, just buy Premier if it provides you with your preferred workflow.

Hi, maybe my poor English make you have some misunderstanding. My aim is to come up with some valuable improvements to make VEGAS Pro more excellent. Actually VEGAS Pro has other more advantages than Premiere in editing efficiency. Why I don't talk about it and put it in Premiere's fourm? Because I don't care much about Premiere's improvements. VEGAS Pro is haunting to many VEGAS pro's user so they yearn to see VEGAS Pro became excellent.

3POINT wrote on 5/8/2020, 10:02 AM

@Dexcon you say loud what I think.

fifonik wrote on 5/8/2020, 5:09 PM

I mean that almost new users and a few old users are using "S+select+delect" mode. Improving it will make VEGAS Pro more improved, efficient and user-friendly. It is helpful to expand market share.

Almost all new users use one finger for typing and one finger for both mouse buttons and most do not use 3rd mouse button at all. So what? You suggesting to improve one finger workflows?

Your first Premier example is absolutely conter-intuitive. 2nd track does not shown as selected after you deleted the piece, but it works as selected. Also, LMB in most applications is selecting and this un-selects previous selection. This is how it works for ages. The example breaks this scenario. I'd like it would never be implemented.

Last changed by fifonik on 5/8/2020, 5:17 PM, changed a total of 1 times.

Camcorder: Panasonic X920

Desktop: MB: MSI B450M MORTAR TITANIUM, CPU: AMD Ryzen 3700X (not OC), RAM: G'Skill 16 GB DDR4@3200 (not OC), Graphics card: MSI RX580 8GB (factory OC), SSD: Samsung 970 Evo+ NVMe 500MB (OS), HDDs: Seagate & Toshiba 2TB, OS: Windows 10 Pro 1909

NLE: Vegas Pro [Edit] 11, 12, 13, 15, 17

lan-mLMC wrote on 5/8/2020, 5:16 PM

I mean that almost new users and a few old users are using "S+select+delect" mode. Improving it will make VEGAS Pro more improved, efficient and user-friendly. It is helpful to expand market share.

Almost all new users use one finger for typing and one finger for both mouse button and most do not use 3rd mouse button at all. So what? You suggesting to improve one finger workflows?

Your first Premier example is absolutely conter-intuitive. 2nd track does not shown as selected after you deleted the piece, but it works as selected. Also, LMB in most applications is selecting and this un-selects previous selection. This is how it works for ages. The example breaks this scenario. I'd like it would never be implemented.

Hello, standing how to make a software user-friendly, as long as many many users still use it in reality , it is worthwhile to improving. Improving is helpful to expand market share in these new users.