Goodbye Vegas...Hello DaVinci

ulrik-farlov-qvist wrote on 6/10/2019, 4:42 AM

I have been a loyal user of Vegas for many years, but now I simply cant stand it anymore. Sorry to say. The performance of the product simply is so bad especially in preview. I work with 4K H265 video and have a fairly beefy computer (i7, 32GB ram, nvidia geforce 1060 (which hardly is used in Vegas)). I have to work with proxies which are in so low a quality and very pixelated. When adding effects it even gets worse. So...thats it. I am switching to Davinci Resolve..Have tried the free version and it outperforms by miles both in UI quality and performance....

Comments

bob-h wrote on 6/10/2019, 5:01 AM

I mean it's true, for timeline performance and hardware decoding of nvidia cards. I don't know if davinci can use hardware decoding of AMD graphic cards, but I would suspect It can. Encoding is also faster because it doesnt' have the same delays that vegas does. People like the userblity of vegas pro, but it's 'engine' is ancient, and likely will never be updated by magix.

carsos00 wrote on 6/10/2019, 5:54 AM

I'm starting to feel the same, unstable and slower than it should be... but most importantly we never know if and when there's going to be a new more stable rebuild..... such a shame great front end and easy to use but under all that let down with so many issues..

malowz wrote on 6/10/2019, 7:54 AM

Centuries ago when we transition from SD to HD, the performance was not a "hit" but a "murder". Our pc's that worked great with DV then, now where expected to work with HD and h.264. Since then i started working with Intermediate formats and haven't looked back since. It was great, since the editing process became "snappy" as DV, with a few downsides. Thankfully, CPU power and storage price have getting better at fast pace, and better processor and faster HD/SSD enhance everything on a PC. Graphics card? never had use for me. even before vegas, programs that used GPU where a "hit or miss". (not even talking about driver issues) so i stick to the "software only" road. When vegas announced "hardware acceleration" i knew it would be buggy or "work under a few conditions" only, so i didn't even consider. Hearing from problems users had here, it was clearly the best choice. I'm still using intermediate for everything, automate all the conversion processes, it NEVER, i repeat, NEVER had a problem using with it. Starting to work with some 4k footage now (downsizing to HD. I'm Brazillian, 4k is not mainstream here yet).

Of course, each person has their needs, but a lot of software are using more and more GPU+CPU (like neatvideo). My workflow it's not the same as everyone, but to everyone who ask, i say, "use intermediate, buy basic GPU and invest ins CPU+Storage"

By the way, i'm using onboard graphics card, and i bought this PC 10 years ago. Upgraded CPU, RAM, Storage, and still working great with DI. Imagine how amazing better will be when i get a new one soon... ;)

Kinvermark wrote on 6/10/2019, 1:44 PM

Sounds like the OP has made up his mind. Fair enough, but it makes me wonder why he bothered posting at all?

Some more balanced "facts" for others:

1) Davinci render performance is fast. In many cases much faster than Vegas. Output formats are limited, however, and never as good/ size efficient as Handbrake x264/265. Vegas can frameserve to Handbrake and has other hooks into FFMPEG through Happy Otter Scripts and Vegasaur.

2) Davinci timeline preview performance is NOT better than Vegas. It sometimes appears to be better because it caches transitions, text, etc. in the background. But you have to wait for this to happen, and it can take quite a while. Setting Vegas to preview-Auto will almost always get you decent playback; not true with Davinci equivalent. Davinci STUDIO ($300) does have some h264/h265 hardware decoding support that HELPS with nasty editing formats like h265 drone footage; Davinci Free does not include this. AMD VCE support is only in beta at the moment.

In either program, it is far better to use proxies or intermediates. This is the standard professional workflow. Both have automated methods to do this, but Vegas with Vegasaur or Happy Otter Scripts is more flexible and easier.

3) Editing fluidity is far better in Vegas. Once you get a complex timeline in Davinci, and you try to get your edit timings tight, you will start to see the brilliance of Vegas.

4) Applying motion transforms (e.g. Ken Burns effect) and easing in Davinci is currently a nightmare. No automation at all, and you have to fiddle around endlessly to get the look you want. Many are complaining about this ; maybe they will fix it?

In Vegas this is a breeze, with (notice a pattern here) great support from Vegasaur, etc.

5) Colour in Davinci is unsurpassed by any other program. Nothing more to be said. In my view it is worth the hassle of a roundtrip workflow from Vegas.

 

 

 

 

 

 

tripleflip18 wrote on 6/10/2019, 3:53 PM

just wanted to say that timeline preview is way better in davinci and for me in Premier pro is MUCH MUCH better/faster with HEVC files. premier pro has no problem with 4 multicams 4k/60p hevc or h265..... vegas pro can't even do 1 in 2.7k60p, and i have 18 core 4.5ghz overclock and radeon7...

I am so on the fence... i just edited my first project in premier (butter smooth preview with alpha channels on top of 4k 60p video).. but man, hate the workflow of the timeline, the separation of video/audio tracks... do love double clicking on preview screen to move the alpha channels without going into any kind of menus and seeing the alpha right on the video is soooooooooo nice.

My biggest wish is for the vegas team to make it run smoothly with modern files like the rest of editors.

 

BruceUSA wrote on 6/10/2019, 9:18 PM

Vegas and Davinci Resolve both programs works great for me. I love them both. I would not use anything else other then this two.

Kinvermark wrote on 6/10/2019, 9:50 PM

@BruceUSA

+1. I like using them together. Vegas storyboard & timeline; Davinci "media prep" (i.e. initial "low res" proxy generation, final colour, optical speed ramp, stabilization...)

What's your basic workflow?

 

TheRhino wrote on 6/11/2019, 7:39 AM

I was feeling the frustration with 4K work until I upgraded to a 9900K @ 5.0 ghz, Vega 64, and M.2 source drives. Vegas still appears to benefit from clock speed vs. more cores at lower speeds likely due to the older code/engine... IMO Vegas still has the most intuitive workflow. I have to use other NLEs for collaborative work & miss Vegas' workflow. I simply get projects completed sooner in Vegas. For paid work time=money & money = time. The other NLEs each have certain features that stand-out but from start-to-finish my projects go smoother & finish sooner in Vegas. We will see if Vegas 17 adds improvements. Currently I am able to do my color work in Vegas without switching to Davinci but some of it has to do with my familiarity with Vegas' color tools & sheer time spent getting Vegas to do what I want it to do...

Workstation D with $1,350 USD of upgrades in April, 2019
--$500 9900K @ 5.0ghz
--$140 Corsair i150i liquid cooling with 360mm radiator (3 fans)
--$200 open box Asus Z390 WS (PLX chip manages 4/5 PCIe slots)
--$160 32GB of G.Skill DDR4 3000
--$350 refurbished, but like-new Radeon Vega 64 LQ (liquid cooled)

Renders Vegas11 "Red Car Test" (QSV) in 13s-14s when clocked at 5.0 ghz
(note: BOTH onboard Intel & Vega64 show utilization during QSV renders...)

Source Video1 = 4TB RAID0--(2) 2TB M.2 on motherboard in RAID0
Source Video2 = 4TB RAID0--(2) 2TB M.2 (1) via U.2 adapter & (1) on separate PCIe card
Target Video1 = 32TB RAID0--(4) 8TB SATA hot-swap drives on PCIe RAID10 card

10G Network using cheap Mellanox2 Adapters
Copy of Work Files, Source & Output Video, OS Images on QNAP 653b NAS
Blackmagic Decklink PCie card for capturing from tape, etc.
(2) internal BR Burners connected via USB 3.0 to SATA adapters
Old Cooler Master CM Stacker ATX case with (13) 5.25" front drive-bays holds & cools everything.

Workstations A, B & C are 6-core 4.0ghz Xeon 5660 or I7 980x on Asus P6T6 motherboards.

brian-smith wrote on 6/11/2019, 8:33 AM

Feeling the pain guys. I really like Vegas but it is too weak to handle what we need it to do. Haven;t tried Resolve yet but am converting to Premiere Pro. I want to like Vegas but my work is forcing me to look for better solutions (and ones that don't crash as often)

Wolfgang S. wrote on 6/11/2019, 10:14 AM

I was feeling the frustration with 4K work until I upgraded to a 9900K @ 5.0 ghz, Vega 64, and M.2 source drives. Vegas still appears to benefit from clock speed vs. more cores at lower speeds likely due to the older code/engine... IMO Vegas still has the most intuitive workflow. I have to use other NLEs for collaborative work & miss Vegas' workflow. I simply get projects completed sooner in Vegas. For paid work time=money & money = time. The other NLEs each have certain features that stand-out but from start-to-finish my projects go smoother & finish sooner in Vegas.

That are exactly the Points that are very valid for me too:

- the intuitive workflow of Vegas

- that you have to use a high clock speed with Vegas.

 

I have here Resolve too. And I like the grading capabilities of Resolve. But still go back to Vegas since it handels also HDR Projects. I would expect significant performance improvements for Vegas 17 too. 

Dimitrios wrote on 6/11/2019, 11:24 AM

Grazie wrote on 6/11/2019, 12:03 PM

@Wolfgang S. - I'm expecting/hoping great things for my new i9:

  • ASUS TUF X299 MARK 2 Motherboard
     
  • Samsung 860 PRO 512GB 2.5” SATA SSD/Solid State Drive
     
  • Intel Core i9 9820X s2066, 16.5 MB CACHE, 10Core/20Thread, 4.1GHz 1
     
  • Corsair 64GB Vengeance LPX DDR4 2666MHz RAM/Memory Kit 4x 16GB
     
  • ASUS NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2070 8GB TURBO EVO Turing Graphics Card

Yeah, presently I'm "coping" with my old PC 7 64-bit 16gb * Intel® Core™i7-2600k Quad Core 3.40GHz * 2GB NVIDIA GEFORCE GTX 560 Ti

Grazie

 

aboammar wrote on 6/11/2019, 2:13 PM

@Wolfgang S. - I'm expecting/hoping great things for my new i9:

  • ASUS TUF X299 MARK 2 Motherboard
     
  • Samsung 860 PRO 512GB 2.5” SATA SSD/Solid State Drive
     
  • Intel Core i9 9820X s2066, 16.5 MB CACHE, 10Core/20Thread, 4.1GHz 1
     
  • Corsair 64GB Vengeance LPX DDR4 2666MHz RAM/Memory Kit 4x 16GB
     
  • ASUS NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2070 8GB TURBO EVO Turing Graphics Card

Yeah, presently I'm "coping" with my old PC 7 64-bit 16gb * Intel® Core™i7-2600k Quad Core 3.40GHz * 2GB NVIDIA GEFORCE GTX 560 Ti

Grazie

 

Great specs .. only downside is in the storage! For such specs you should opt for NVMe SSDs and you will notice a huge performance increase, especially with Samsung SSD 970 PRO. It now sells for only $150 .. extreamly worth it (https://www.samsung.com/us/computing/memory-storage/solid-state-drives/ssd-970-pro-nvme-m2-512gb-mz-v7p512bw/)

HP Z1 AIO Workstation G3

OS: Windows 10 Pro 64bit

Display: 23.6" UHD 4K

CPU: Xeon E3-1270 v5  quad-core @ 3.60GHz, 8MB cache, up to 4GHz with Intel Turbo Boost Technology

GPU: nVidia Quadro M2000M 4GB

RAM: 32GB DDR4 2133MHz ECC memory

System Drive: 1TB M.2 (2500MB/s)

Working Drive: 1TB M.2 (2500MB/s)

Storage Drive: 3GB SSD (500MB/s)

Video: Vegas Pro 16 Suite / DaVinci Resolve 16 Studio

Audio: PreSonus Studio One Pro 4

Graphics: CorelDraw Technical Suite 2018 / Xara Designer Pro X

Image Editing: Corel PhotoPaint 2018 / Corel PaintShop Pro X9 Ultimate / PHASEONE Capture One Pro 11

3D Graphics: Maxon Cinema 4D Studio 10

Website: www.innoviahouse.com

Vimeo: vimeo.com/innoviahouse

Grazie wrote on 6/11/2019, 2:23 PM

@aboammar - I’m adding a further 8Tb of Internal storage.

bob-h wrote on 6/11/2019, 3:37 PM

if you want a quiet drive to go with your quiet ssd's i'd recommend the 10tb WD red drive. Noticably quieter than 8TB. The Seagate IronWolf 10tb is a faster drive but noisier and hotter. Both extremely reliable

vkmast wrote on 6/11/2019, 3:50 PM

Please note that there already is this thread re Grazie's new PC.

Grazie wrote on 6/11/2019, 3:59 PM

@bob-h - I’m having 4x2Tb setup. I’m a bit leery of having a single 10Tb drive. Been there done that, Oh yes....

Grazie wrote on 6/11/2019, 4:00 PM

@vkmast - Yes, let’s get back on track with this thread.

klt wrote on 6/11/2019, 5:02 PM

@ulrik-farlov-qvist

For me it was a different story. But why bother with stories kind of like this the Vegas forum?

 

D7K wrote on 6/11/2019, 7:46 PM

trolls

Martin L wrote on 6/12/2019, 1:19 AM

@Wolfgang S. - I'm expecting/hoping great things for my new i9:

  • ASUS TUF X299 MARK 2 Motherboard
     
  • Samsung 860 PRO 512GB 2.5” SATA SSD/Solid State Drive
     
  • Intel Core i9 9820X s2066, 16.5 MB CACHE, 10Core/20Thread, 4.1GHz 1
     
  • Corsair 64GB Vengeance LPX DDR4 2666MHz RAM/Memory Kit 4x 16GB
     
  • ASUS NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2070 8GB TURBO EVO Turing Graphics Card

Yeah, presently I'm "coping" with my old PC 7 64-bit 16gb * Intel® Core™i7-2600k Quad Core 3.40GHz * 2GB NVIDIA GEFORCE GTX 560 Ti

Grazie

 

Grazie, I'm also about to change machine in a pretty near future. Please tell about how you spent your dosh and what your experiences are with your new gear and Vegas.

vkmast wrote on 6/12/2019, 1:36 AM

@Martin L please note (and).

Grazie wrote on 6/12/2019, 1:40 AM

@vkmast - Quite Correct.... Just sent Martin a Private Message.

Martin L wrote on 6/12/2019, 3:45 AM

@Martin L please note (and).

Oh, right! Thanks vkmast.