Vegas doesn't allow me to progress with editing. Urgent help needed.

Folli wrote on 12/4/2023, 9:45 PM

Hello, I would like to keep this as short as possible at the start, I want to know how do I share as much information as I posibally can... What logs, crash reports, screenshot would give you the best chance to find the root of this issue?

I started a large Gameplay Build Guide project, in 4K resolution for the first time. I'm nearing the completion of adding and placing the clips where needed to have a finished foundation, then I'll follow up by exstensively editing everything step by step. That's the usual deal but I'm not sure if that would be possible with the program acting so fragile. I open the program, wait for 5+ minutes just to let it all load and still, the most thats safe for me to do to avoid a instant crash is to create a proxy file of the latest added clip then restart the program and repeat the process until all clips have their proxy files finished which only then it allows me to edit them in the first place without a crash.

This is extremely frustrating, I'm hoping someone who can sympathize will try to help me out. It would truly save me a lot of time.

CPU: Intel i7-8700
GPU: RTX 2070

Comments

RogerS wrote on 12/4/2023, 9:58 PM

It sounds like VEGAS is having trouble with the media you are using. Can you share MediaInfo for the main type? https://www.vegascreativesoftware.info/us/forum/faq-how-to-post-mediainfo-and-vegas-pro-file-properties--104561/

If it's a capture, how exactly did you do it (what software) and what settings?

We may be able to give you advice on better capture settings or ways to convert and swap the media so you don't have the risk of crashes.

mark-y wrote on 12/4/2023, 10:07 PM

There is nothing built into Vegas to prevent it from overloading your system and crashing if you add too many high-resolution compressed files. Your project must be able to work within the confines of your system's capabilities. Your RAM and VM and buffer space are finite.

Render your proxies first before adding them to the timeline. Break your project into smaller segments and nest them for rendering.

SAVE EARLY AND SAVE OFTEN.

For troubleshooting help, start by providing all of the requested information.

https://www.vegascreativesoftware.info/us/forum/important-information-required-to-help-you--110457/

 

Folli wrote on 12/4/2023, 10:49 PM

@RogerS Here is MediaInfo of the main video type

General
Complete name                            : C:\Users\jukic\Videos\2023 12 04 22 20 13-1.m4v
Format                                   : MPEG-4
Format profile                           : Base Media / Version 2
Codec ID                                 : mp42 (mp42/iso2/mp41)
File size                                : 156 MiB
Duration                                 : 1 min 5 s
Overall bit rate                         : 20.1 Mb/s
Frame rate                               : 30.000 FPS
Encoded date                             : 2023-12-04 21:28:46 UTC
Tagged date                              : 2023-12-04 21:28:46 UTC
Writing application                      : HandBrake 1.4.1 2021081500

Video
ID                                       : 1
Format                                   : HEVC
Format/Info                              : High Efficiency Video Coding
Format profile                           : Main@L5@Main
Codec ID                                 : hvc1
Codec ID/Info                            : High Efficiency Video Coding
Duration                                 : 1 min 5 s
Bit rate                                 : 20.1 Mb/s
Width                                    : 3 840 pixels
Height                                   : 2 160 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9
Frame rate mode                          : Constant
Frame rate                               : 30.000 FPS
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
Bit depth                                : 8 bits
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.081
Stream size                              : 156 MiB (100%)
Encoded date                             : 2023-12-04 21:28:46 UTC
Tagged date                              : 2023-12-04 21:28:46 UTC
Color range                              : Limited
Color primaries                          : BT.709
Transfer characteristics                 : BT.709
Matrix coefficients                      : BT.709
Codec configuration box                  : hvcC



It's a converted file from .mkv to .mp4 using HandBrake.
Here is MediaInfo of the original .mkv file, before the conversion:


 

General
Unique ID                                : 285514433277607174234802602319385640498 (0xD6CC14649FE5A6C5E0C078B4F80ABE32)
Complete name                            : D:\Replay Videos\2023_12_04_22_20_13.mkv
Format                                   : Matroska
Format version                           : Version 4
File size                                : 5.48 GiB
Duration                                 : 1 min 5 s
Overall bit rate                         : 724 Mb/s
Frame rate                               : 30.000 FPS
Writing application                      : Lavf59.16.100
Writing library                          : Lavf59.16.100
ErrorDetectionType                       : Per level 1

Video
ID                                       : 1
Format                                   : AVC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile                           : High 4:4:4 Predictive@L5.1
Format settings                          : 1 Ref Frames
Format settings, CABAC                   : No
Format settings, Reference frames        : 1 frame
Codec ID                                 : V_MPEG4/ISO/AVC
Duration                                 : 1 min 5 s
Bit rate                                 : 710 Mb/s
Width                                    : 3 840 pixels
Height                                   : 2 160 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9
Frame rate mode                          : Constant
Frame rate                               : 30.000 FPS
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:4:4
Bit depth                                : 8 bits
Scan type                                : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 2.852
Stream size                              : 5.37 GiB (98%)
Writing library                          : x264 core 164 r3081 19856cc
Encoding settings                        : cabac=0 / ref=1 / deblock=0:0:0 / analyse=0:0 / me=dia / subme=0 / psy=0 / mixed_ref=0 / me_range=16 / chroma_me=1 / trellis=0 / 8x8dct=0 / cqm=0 / deadzone=21,11 / fast_pskip=0 / chroma_qp_offset=0 / threads=18 / lookahead_threads=3 / sliced_threads=0 / nr=0 / decimate=1 / interlaced=0 / bluray_compat=0 / constrained_intra=0 / bframes=0 / weightp=0 / keyint=250 / keyint_min=25 / scenecut=0 / intra_refresh=0 / rc=cqp / mbtree=0 / qp=0
Default                                  : No
Forced                                   : No
Color range                              : Limited



And here are HandBrake settings, probably nothing unexpected:

Folli wrote on 12/4/2023, 10:51 PM

Hm, can you please explain this part a bit more? How do I break a project into segments, and what do you mean by nest them for rendering?

Break your project into smaller segments and nest them for rendering.

 

RogerS wrote on 12/4/2023, 11:12 PM

I recently saw someone else use similar settings and have trouble.

For Handbrake I start with the production standard preset and then customize it.

I would go to AVC vs HEVC for better playback. HEVC is going through a lot of changes at the moment in VEGAS.

0 is a ridiculous quality setting for VEGAS. Try ~17 to err on the side of high quality. 21 is more normal quality.

I'd use MP4 as the container.

For advanced settings set keyint= your framerate which is 30.

Once you have better media you can either replace media or swap video files in the VEGAS media bin.

Nesting is a way to combine multiple projects together into one timeline. You can import a .veg file the same way as media. It's slower though to render and if your media is fine there may not be an need for it. If you have standard parts for your video like an intro you could import the veg directly for example.

 

mark-y wrote on 12/4/2023, 11:40 PM

1.Breaking into smaller segments means rendering a number of smaller projects rather than one large one.

2. Type Nested Projects into Vegas Help or a Forum Search.

mark-y wrote on 12/4/2023, 11:47 PM

Encode x264 AVC in Handbrake, not HEVC.

Just a thought, 700 Mbps capture is a bit much if it will be reduced to 20-30 Mbps

vkmast wrote on 12/5/2023, 6:21 AM

"How do I search the forum?" and "Forum Update: A Basic Search Function"

 

mark-y wrote on 12/5/2023, 9:21 AM

Encode x264 AVC in Handbrake, not HEVC.

x264 = AVC

h264=AVC

h265=HEVC

x265=HEVC

 

Folli wrote on 12/5/2023, 9:23 AM

@mark-y Oh, alright I make the change! I hope you can understand my lack of knowledge on these things... I just picked up the program and learned my self to edit this stuff... No wonder I run into these kind of issues.

mark-y wrote on 12/5/2023, 9:45 AM

I think the key to learning the program, and it will take years not months, is to start with shorter, simple projects, plan on making mistakes, and save your projects often so you can go back and see when problems were created.

That's quite a project you made; but focusing only on the end result without leaving yourself a trail of breadcrumbs is likely to cause frustration and feeling trapped. I, being a retired nerd, tend to focus on the process and learn to accept novel, sometimes unplanned outcomes.

And don't get down on yourself if you need to scrap a project and start over because you missed an earlier step. It's exactly the same way we all learned; the bigger the blunder, the bigger the opportunity for growth.

Lots of resources available for ideas and learning details, links to some of them are listed here:

https://www.vegascreativesoftware.info/us/forum/got-questions-consult-the-tutorials-first-please--120282/

Folli wrote on 12/5/2023, 9:55 AM

I've been working on these for 3 years now, so I think I'm fine with a project of this size... I know how I want the video to look and have the skill to edit it that way. But the program is dying on me so often that it finally reached this point where it really doesn't make sense to continue. I need some change, a solution. You can see my latest video I made on my Yt channel, Folli. It's 2 and a half hours long, but it's in 1080p so I successfully finished the project. 4K is a big upgrade.
I'll make sure to find a fix here.

mark-y wrote on 12/5/2023, 10:03 AM

@Folli As far as processing a folder full of files for use in Vegas, many of us here like to use Shutter Encoder. It is free, and does many of the same things as Handbrakes, and the interface is a lot slicker.

mark-y wrote on 12/5/2023, 10:15 AM

Lightweight proxies and easiest on your system are still from Vegas, as XDCAM-EX (mpeg-2). I suppose you have tried opening the MKV files in Vegas, still a crapshoot.

Happy Otter Scripts is sure to open your MKVs and turn them into slick proxies on the Vegas timeline. That and a whole lot more. Our friend @wwaag is having a Holiday special right now at tools4vegas.com

mark-y wrote on 12/5/2023, 10:36 AM

I think your captures would benefit from 60 fps at a lower bitrate (100Mbps?).

Last time I checked, Youtube was processing all 4k 60fps SDR down to 15-18 Mbps, no matter what you can throw at it.

Folli wrote on 12/5/2023, 3:56 PM

Handbrake is now rendering a 1 minute video for over an hour and a half, there must be some kind of mistake that I made, right?

RogerS wrote on 12/5/2023, 5:31 PM

Why did you pick the slower than slow placebo quality?

Folli wrote on 12/5/2023, 6:09 PM

@RogerS I swaped it between that and the fastest option. It said 40 minutes remaining and it kept rising so I figured thats not a solution.

RogerS wrote on 12/5/2023, 6:14 PM

It's part of a solution.

Beyond that is the CPU overheating and throttling? X264 is CPU only so is only as fast as the CPU can encode. You can try a GPU encode if you're in a hurry.

Also see a recent thread here on OBS settings that record to fragmented mp4 and remux to regular which takes hardly any time vs a reencode.

Last changed by RogerS on 12/6/2023, 8:51 AM, changed a total of 2 times.

Custom PC (2022) Intel i5-13600K with UHD 770 iGPU with latest driver, MSI z690 Tomahawk motherboard, 64GB Corsair DDR5 5200 ram, NVIDIA 2080 Super (8GB) with latest studio driver, 2TB Hynix P41 SSD and 2TB Samsung 980 Pro cache drive, Windows 11 Pro 64 bit https://pcpartpicker.com/b/rZ9NnQ

ASUS Zenbook Pro 14 Intel i9-13900H with Intel graphics iGPU with latest ASUS driver, NVIDIA 4060 (8GB) with latest studio driver, 48GB system ram, Windows 11 Home, 1TB Samsung SSD.

VEGAS Pro 21.208
VEGAS Pro 22.250

Try the
VEGAS 4K "sample project" benchmark (works with VP 16+): https://forms.gle/ypyrrbUghEiaf2aC7
VEGAS Pro 20 "Ad" benchmark (works with VP 20+): https://forms.gle/eErJTR87K2bbJc4Q7

mark-y wrote on 12/5/2023, 6:18 PM

Save yourself all of the experimentation by selecting the Production Standard Preset in Handbrake.

You can learn all about the various settings later; Handbrake provides a wealth of documentation, including the part that reveals the huge joke and irony in naming their "Placebo" preset. It's there mostly for unemployed compression junkies and preteenagers.

Size, Quality, Speed. Pick two. That's from a stone tablet somewhere.

I use VeryFast preset for almost all of my work in Handbrake, Shutter Encoder, and Voukoder. For me, it is the best tradeoff point on the speed / quality axis.

mark-y wrote on 12/5/2023, 6:41 PM

Worth mentioning is that mathematically, 4k requires 4 times the CPU/GPU calculations of identical 1080p, not double. Don't expect encoding time miracles by any method of creating proxies or your final encoding. It is a process of diminishing returns for render times, quality being the only payoff.

Folli wrote on 12/6/2023, 8:09 AM

I selected the preset you recommended, looks good and is quite fast. It also seems to go way better with Vegas so thanks! Seems like I can continue with the project!

RogerS wrote on 12/6/2023, 8:50 AM

Glad it's working for you!