Vegas Pro (and Movie Studio) render everything with wrong levels.

vjsouza wrote on 7/18/2017, 11:25 PM

Hey, guys at Magix,

I used all my time all day to prepare this material. This is the biggest problem in Vegas, of all editions, of all time. From the time of Sonic Foundry, through Sony, and now with Magix team.

Vegas has a strange behavior with YUV (16-235) and RGB (0-255) contents in the same project.

All images rendered by Vegas (pro or Movie Studio), all images in the timeline have their content automatically converted at export, from 16-235 levels to 0-255 levels. The big problem is that images that are already 0-255 levels also go through this destructive process. So unfortunately, all that Vegas renders to MP4, AVCHD, DVD, Blu-Ray, MXF, etc. so far, are images that have destroyed everything that is below level 16 and above level 235.

I've been denouncing this error for a very, very long time. I have sent this complaint several times to the Sony staff, and they have never corrected this mistake.

If this issue still persists in the upcoming Vegas 15 release, maybe I'd better look for an alternative.

I very much hope that the MAGIX staff will correct this grotesque mistake before launching the Vegas 15 version.

Please, download and study carefully the source and rendered files, zipped in a file at this link:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/di87tsqeryvrq9z/VegasWrongColors.zip?dl=1

Please, see the READ ME FIRST.pdf in Full Screen.

Back to post

Comments

Wolfgang S. wrote on 7/21/2017, 11:56 AM

Guys, let me leave something very clear. My productions are mostly to run on TV and YouTube / Vimeo. All computer players come pre-set to run YUV 16-235 videos, as well as all LED or LCD TVs, all of which run YUV 16-235 colors. YouTube, Vimeo, DailyMotion, etc. All of these run 16-235 videos only. So, there's no point in exporting Full Range RGB 0-255 to such media because it will not work.

I do not know of any TV device that runs RGB 0-255. All only run YUV 16-235.

I have been a producer of TV commercials for 17 years, and I have sent my productions in MXF XDCAM to the main broadcasters in Brazil, Rede Globo, SBT, Record and Bandeirantes. I have more than 500 commercials broadcast on these stations, and I have never had any disapproval. I KNOW WORKING WITH TV LEVELS.

All other programs I know deal well with mixtures of YUV 16-235 camcorder videos with JPEG / PNG RGB 0-255 photos. The editor does not even need to know that you are mixing RGB with YUV on the same project. I would like things in Vegas Pro to be the same as other NLE programs. Only that! Is that too much to ask?

I know the Vegas program since the old version Sonic Foundry Vegas Video 2.0. I doubt that my critics have as much experience in Vegas as I have. Please respect me, and stop joking. Since then I have worked with all versions.

I have bypassed the problem of mixing YUV 16-236 with RGB 0-255 in the same project by placing the LEVELS plug-in with the "Computer RGB to Studio RGB" preset on RGB objects 0-255. This has worked. But I wish things were different. In other programs, I do not need to make any adjustments. Just put RGB and YUV on the same project with no problems. I know that if there is goodwill, Vegas Pro programmers can do that.

Having written the above, I do not think I need to comment any more!

Bye!

Nobody has joked here about you, really nobody. That has to be stated quite clear.

But I ask myself another something different: Vegas works in full range, and one can adjust the Vegas internal waveform-monitor either in the way that 0% = 16 and 100% = 235, or that 0% = 0 and 100% = 255. I wonder that you do not set the waveform monitor to the first setting, and adjust your luminance of your footage to the "legal range as required by broadcast stations that you work for.

I mean, it is really up to you as user to know what your requirements for your production are, fine if that is 16..235. And then to know how to use the tool Vegas, Edius or Adobe or whatever to fullfill this requirements.

That includes for sure to know and learn enough about the tool to know how to achieve that. A lot of people told you here that Vegas works in full range and does not alter the levels. If you use Vegas - and I think Vegas is a great editor - then why is that so hard to understand and impossible to accept that?

I for my part have here Vegas, Edius but also Resolve Studio - and I think it is a clear strength of Vegas to stick to full range always. That is a clear concept that I like, I know how to handle that, and I see no reason why that should be changed. Vegas is not perfect for sure, but this aspect is great really.

Wolfgang S. wrote on 7/21/2017, 12:40 PM

Really? Try to export my project "RGB Exported with Vegas Pro 14.veg" as Sony AVC, and compare the source file "Sample RGB Full HD.png"with your exported MP4 file, in a player, as VLC Media Player, Media Player Classic, or other.
If in your exported MP4 file you can read the text "Foreground RGB 16, 16, 16" and "Foreground 235, 235, 235" in your TV or VLC Media Player, I will send to you a box with chocolates from Brazil.

I have done so similar to others have done - and the results are:

the original file has Levels between -9% and +109% (waveform set to Studio rgb, so 0% = 16, 100% = 235)
re-Import of the rendered file with the Sony AVC Encoder Shows that the Levels are not changed at all
even the vlc media Player Shows the text box that you have in the range of superwhite and superblack! (but I do not Need a box of chocolates at all)

Marco. wrote on 7/21/2017, 4:39 PM

Now that you all mention it - I would gladly take that chocolate box. :)

Musicvid wrote on 7/21/2017, 6:02 PM

You need a calibrated monitor and may need to tilt the screen or turn up the brightness a little but the concept is sound.

RGB source, fullrange off

RGB source, fullrange on (correct)

YUV source, fullrange off (correct)

YUV source fullrange on

16-255 source, fullrange off (whites are clipped)

Please let me know if this can be improved upon.

Peter_P wrote on 7/22/2017, 1:05 AM

Peter, the flag and major brand (isom, mp42) can also be written in MP4Box, with a special extension.

Can you please give details what 'special extension' is required (link) ?

Marco. wrote on 7/22/2017, 4:02 AM

Peter, for the de/muxer FFmpeg build you linked I use this FFmpeg script:

@echo off
:next
if "%~1"=="" goto done
set output=%~dpn1_full%~x1
ffmpeg -i "%~1" -acodec copy -vcodec copy -vbsf h264_changesps=fullrange "%output%"
shift
goto next
:done
exit

Put it into the de/muxer FFmpeg folder, put the clips to be flagged as full range in same folder and just drag the desired clips onto that batch file. It seems to work perfectly.

Musicvid wrote on 7/22/2017, 8:45 AM

It's called GPAC for MP4Box

https://gpac.wp.imt.fr/mp4box/mp4box-documentation/

Apologies if it's not needed for changing VUI flag. Don't remember.

Actually, Marco's script looks slicker to me.

Peter_P wrote on 7/23/2017, 1:12 AM

Thanks Marco, thanks Musicvid, I'll try the script.

Unfortunatly many players as MPC-HC just do not care about this flag .