Comments

DrLumen wrote on 1/9/2017, 11:42 PM

Since you detest the UI so much, why do you continue to use Vegas?

And to answer your question, it is crap!

3POINT wrote on 1/9/2017, 11:44 PM

A darker theme would be definitely appreciated.

3POINT, Theo Houben, Vegasuser since version 5

Recware: DJI Osmo Pocket, GoproHero7Black, PanasonicFZ300/HCX909, Sony PXW-X160.

Software:VegasPro17/VegasMovieStudio16/PowerDirector18

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Nick Hope wrote on 1/9/2017, 11:56 PM

Since you detest the UI so much, why do you continue to use Vegas?

This is a little unfair to the poster who is not being negative in this post. glovercover has previously contributed very usefully to the debate on the UI.

And to answer your question, it is crap!

Why? Do you have any constructive criticism?

Dr Zen wrote on 1/10/2017, 1:43 AM

Thank you glovercover :)
I would love to see the UI look more like your screen shot - very nice indeed!

I have never understood why so many Vegas users want Vegas to remain hermetically sealed in 1999. I know that saying this is like waving a red flag at a bull, but there is no easy way to say it. Any suggestion of making the Vegas UI look more aesthetically pleasing, always seems to polarise many members of this forum. I wonder if it has anything to do with right brain/left brain balance?

As an artist, designer and meditator myself, I am always evolving and searching for the perfect balance between beauty & functionality. I still love using Vegas, but cringe every time I set eyes on it, compared to similar programs on the market that look modern and inviting. Examples of software design that I really like are: Izotope, Cyberlink, Davinci Resolve and parts of Adobe.

Many don't want change, but an equal number do want change. The UI is the control panel for the plane. To me it still looks like a relic from a second world war bomber, instead of like a modern control panel you would see in an A380.

vkmast wrote on 1/10/2017, 1:55 AM

From https://www.branded3.com/blog/where-objective-meets-subjective-balancing-aesthetic-with-usability-in-web-design/

"On the one hand, you have visual design which is almost entirely subjective. Everyone looks at design from a personal perspective – what one person loves, another hates. No one, including even the most experienced web designer, can categorically say if a piece of creative work is right or wrong. However, on the other hand you have usability, which by its very definition is objective; granting the capability of easily achieving the user’s objectives." (Bolding by this poster)

Editor17958 wrote on 1/10/2017, 5:58 AM

I kind of like this darker theme idea, I might use it.

OldSmoke wrote on 1/10/2017, 11:10 AM

To me it still looks like a relic from a second world war bomber, instead of like a modern control panel you would see in an A380.

I am not quite onboard with that statement. Airplane cockpits are not designed by artists and have to be functional and nothing else.

The same would apply to a software interface, because that's what it is. It is a "human machine interface" and it has to be functional. I am ok with a darker background but monochrome buttons are not ok nor are shaded squares to indicate if a button is pressed or not. Colors are important and help us, humans, to finds our ways. As mentioned in another thread, how about redesigned traffic signs from colored ones to monochrome, a traffic light that with different shades of grey for each condition? Colors like red and green have very strong meaning, usually associated with a state or condition.

I already find the current monochrome buttons in VP14 a nuisance and part of why I find VP14 unusable. I could get used to them but that already shows it's a wrong design. It is less intuitive and it takes me longer to hit the right button or to see a state, like the "Mute" and "Single" button.

Proud owner of Sony Vegas Pro 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 & 13 and now Magix VP15&16.

System Spec.:
Motherboard: ASUS X299 Prime-A

Ram: G.Skill 4x8GB DDR4 2666 XMP

CPU: i7-9800x @ 4.6GHz (custom water cooling system)
GPU: 1x AMD Vega Pro Frontier Edition (water cooled)
Hard drives: System Samsung 970Pro NVME, AV-Projects 1TB (4x Intel P7600 512GB VROC), 4x 2.5" Hotswap bays, 1x 3.5" Hotswap Bay, 1x LG BluRay Burner

PSU: Corsair 1200W
Monitor: 2x Dell Ultrasharp U2713HM (2560x1440)

astar wrote on 1/10/2017, 11:39 AM

Everyone complains about how dated Vegas's interface is, and yet AVID has not changed UI since the beginning of time itself. ;) Yet almost all oscar winning films are edited on AVIDs interface, hmm.

A software interface is like a musical instrument, if it works and people like it, why re-order the keys on a piano just to "look" better?

Every NLE interface has serious problems with that fine line between creative simplicity and engineering complexity.

Red Prince wrote on 1/10/2017, 12:48 PM

Everyone complains about how dated Vegas's interface is

I don’t.

He who knows does not speak; he who speaks does not know.
                    — Lao Tze in Tao Te Ching

Can you imagine the silence if everyone only said what he knows?
                    — Karel Čapek (The guy who gave us the word “robot” in R.U.R.)

Jam_One wrote on 1/10/2017, 1:27 PM

How much multiplication table has evolved?

My thinking of an Video/Graphics editing software interface is sort of "it's not a holiday postcard". It's not - and is not supposed to be - an art-for-fun. It is supposed to be "verifiable with algebra". A result of objective calculations based on psycho-physiology, on "construction" & behavior of the human eye & human brain. Not a picture postcard, no, no...

 

And yes, colored buttons are good, black ones are no fun, since it takes longer for the brain to tell one function from another either by identifying the button's shape or by identifying button's exact&relative positioning with no support from color.

 

Dark interface is generally worse for the reasons it leaves eyes with bright picture in the middle of "field of attention" surrounded by darkness -->> higher contrast of the whole observed space -->> more load, quicker fatigue (young people with good eyesight just can't understand it). Ideally, lightness and contrast of the entire working place should be balanced, having neither big black holes nor spotlights-in-your-face. Remember color adaptation of the eyes - our "auto white balance" --> the interface should not contain any prevailing color.

 

...My state of things as of today:

Last changed by Jam_One on 1/10/2017, 1:51 PM, changed a total of 7 times.

Win 7 Ultimate | Intel i7-4790K @ 4GHz | nVidia GTX 760 4GB * 2

SSD | 32 GB RAM | No Swap file | No Overclock | GPU-in-CPU OFF

t.A.T.u. F.o.R.e.V.e.R.!

 

DrLumen wrote on 1/10/2017, 2:45 PM

Since you detest the UI so much, why do you continue to use Vegas?

This is a little unfair to the poster who is not being negative in this post. glovercover has previously contributed very usefully to the debate on the UI.

And to answer your question, it is crap!

Why? Do you have any constructive criticism?

He's playing a game. By bringing this up once a month it could be perceived that some type of majority of users want the UI to change. Even his question is loaded in which he asks if this is the correct way for change (assuming we all agree a change is needed). I gave my opinion.

Meh, whatever you all want to do...

Over and out.

Last changed by DrLumen on 1/10/2017, 2:46 PM, changed a total of 1 times.

intel i-4790k / Asus Z97 Pro / 32GB Crucial RAM / Nvidia GTX 560Ti / 500GB Samsung SSD / 256 GB Samsung SSD / 2-WDC 4TB Black HDD's / 2-WDC 1TB HDD's / 2-HP 23" Monitors / Various MIDI gear, controllers and audio interfaces

Red Prince wrote on 1/10/2017, 3:20 PM

Meh, whatever you all want to do...

There is no “us all” here. I personally like the Vegas UI the way it is. It is the standard Windows UI, which is fully configurable already, so if somebody likes black windows with black background, nothing is stopping them from configuring their Windows that way (presumably, that is how all the samples in this thread were created to start with).

Not only do I like the Vegas UI as is, if Magix forces some non-standard interface on us all, I shall not upgrade ever again and may even write my own editing software, which I will release for free, source code included. I have been toying with that idea for years, and the main reason I have never finished that project was that Vegas still keeps me happy. But now that I had my amputation and spend most of my time sitting at the computer, that may change (no promises, though).

Of course, those of us who are happy with the Vegas UI are less likely to participate in this thread than those unhappy with it. But that does not mean that we all want to do what the OP is suggesting. I actually find it insulting that you would presume to lump us all into wanting something you don’t want.

That said, if Magix wants to make the Vegas UI fully user configurable, it wouldn’t bother me as long as they don’t force me to it and as long as they don’t make it of a higher priority than fixing the things that actually need to be fixed (such as allowing me to turn off those annoying ACES by default, sheesh).

He who knows does not speak; he who speaks does not know.
                    — Lao Tze in Tao Te Ching

Can you imagine the silence if everyone only said what he knows?
                    — Karel Čapek (The guy who gave us the word “robot” in R.U.R.)

OldSmoke wrote on 1/10/2017, 4:30 PM

(such as allowing me to turn off those annoying ACES by default, sheesh)

Are you editing in 32bit full?

Proud owner of Sony Vegas Pro 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 & 13 and now Magix VP15&16.

System Spec.:
Motherboard: ASUS X299 Prime-A

Ram: G.Skill 4x8GB DDR4 2666 XMP

CPU: i7-9800x @ 4.6GHz (custom water cooling system)
GPU: 1x AMD Vega Pro Frontier Edition (water cooled)
Hard drives: System Samsung 970Pro NVME, AV-Projects 1TB (4x Intel P7600 512GB VROC), 4x 2.5" Hotswap bays, 1x 3.5" Hotswap Bay, 1x LG BluRay Burner

PSU: Corsair 1200W
Monitor: 2x Dell Ultrasharp U2713HM (2560x1440)

JJKizak wrote on 1/10/2017, 6:49 PM

Thank you glovercover :)
I would love to see the UI look more like your screen shot - very nice indeed!

I have never understood why so many Vegas users want Vegas to remain hermetically sealed in 1999. I know that saying this is like waving a red flag at a bull, but there is no easy way to say it. Any suggestion of making the Vegas UI look more aesthetically pleasing, always seems to polarise many members of this forum. I wonder if it has anything to do with right brain/left brain balance?

As an artist, designer and meditator myself, I am always evolving and searching for the perfect balance between beauty & functionality. I still love using Vegas, but cringe every time I set eyes on it, compared to similar programs on the market that look modern and inviting. Examples of software design that I really like are: Izotope, Cyberlink, Davinci Resolve and parts of Adobe.

Many don't want change, but an equal number do want change. The UI is the control panel for the plane. To me it still looks like a relic from a second world war bomber, instead of like a modern control panel you would see in an A380.


I am an artist and the first thing I do in the options is turn off the default color and switch to white so I can see the icons and text. Looking at grey text in a black background is a disaster for me. The same with the black and white icons. Colors equal speed. Just ask people with photographic memories---they see everything in colors as was described on an episode of 60 minutes a few years ago.

JJK

Red Prince wrote on 1/10/2017, 7:10 PM

(such as allowing me to turn off those annoying ACES by default, sheesh)

Are you editing in 32bit full?

Yes, always.

He who knows does not speak; he who speaks does not know.
                    — Lao Tze in Tao Te Ching

Can you imagine the silence if everyone only said what he knows?
                    — Karel Čapek (The guy who gave us the word “robot” in R.U.R.)

glovercover wrote on 1/11/2017, 7:20 AM

On this issue will never be the one opinion. I will say this, if Steve Jobs asking us how to create the best smartphone, iPhone would never have been created.

All my life I've seen how old school tried to stop progress and innovation. So it was with the cameras. When the DSLR started to shoot videos no one took it seriously. Look at it today!

Every day need to look,  invent and experiment. This is the only way to find the right solution. As in the famous Russian proverb, - better to walking bad, than good stand!  

I hope you will understand the meaning.
Peace! 

vkmast wrote on 1/11/2017, 7:33 AM

On this issue will never be the one opinion. I will say this, if Steve Jobs asking us how to create the best smartphone, iPhone would never have been created.

"In 1993, [Don] Norman left UCSD to join Apple Computer, initially as an Apple Fellow as a User Experience Architect (the first use of the phrase "User Experience" in a job title. ---In his book The Design of Everyday Things, Norman uses the term "user-centered design" to describe design based on the needs of the user, leaving aside what he deems secondary issues like aesthetics. User-centered design involves simplifying the structure of tasks, making things visible, getting the mapping right, exploiting the powers of constraint, designing for error, explaining affordances and seven stages of action."

One may deduce from many of the above posts that the "user experience" has not "progressed" with "innovation". There's progress and then there is progress.

glovercover wrote on 1/11/2017, 8:34 AM
 

I understand your point. But the most interesting thing is that nobody really knows what is good or right design. :)
It is possible to find out exactly by trial and error. We live in a very dynamic world, and what worked 10 years ago, today is not always true.

Dark UI did not appear by itself, but through evolution. Working in Vegas 14 today, I get tired much more than work in Photoshop and Premiere. That's why need a dark interface.

vkmast wrote on 1/11/2017, 8:51 AM

As our "user experience" is and will be totally different after "evolution", we most definitely will then be needing an option to customize the UI darkness, cf. your "old school" commentators.

glovercover wrote on 1/11/2017, 9:42 AM

As our "user experience" is and will be totally different after "evolution", we most definitely will then be needing an option to customize the UI darkness, cf. your "old school" commentators.

There is no reason to worry! I'm sure developers will leave the possibility to use the classic theme in Vegas!

vkmast wrote on 1/11/2017, 10:06 AM

All the more reason to worry if the decision's already been made and the only option to customize will be to untick "use Vegas color scheme".

OldSmoke wrote on 1/11/2017, 10:09 AM

But the most interesting thing is that nobody really knows what is good or right design. :)

That is only partially true. Location of buttons on the screen is a simple matter of cursor distance travelled for a certain function in the current task. For example, a good kitchen is an efficient kitchen where the cook doesn't have to travel far between the stove, the sink and where pots, pans and work related tools are located.

Proud owner of Sony Vegas Pro 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 & 13 and now Magix VP15&16.

System Spec.:
Motherboard: ASUS X299 Prime-A

Ram: G.Skill 4x8GB DDR4 2666 XMP

CPU: i7-9800x @ 4.6GHz (custom water cooling system)
GPU: 1x AMD Vega Pro Frontier Edition (water cooled)
Hard drives: System Samsung 970Pro NVME, AV-Projects 1TB (4x Intel P7600 512GB VROC), 4x 2.5" Hotswap bays, 1x 3.5" Hotswap Bay, 1x LG BluRay Burner

PSU: Corsair 1200W
Monitor: 2x Dell Ultrasharp U2713HM (2560x1440)

aboammar wrote on 1/11/2017, 1:10 PM

I am with darker interface but with color buttons and icons.

HP Z1 AIO Workstation G3

OS: Windows 10 Pro 64bit

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CPU: Xeon E3-1270 v5  quad-core @ 3.60GHz, 8MB cache, up to 4GHz with Intel Turbo Boost Technology

GPU: nVidia Quadro M2000M 4GB

RAM: 32GB DDR4 2133MHz ECC memory

System Drive: 1TB M.2 (2500MB/s)

Working Drive: 1TB M.2 (2500MB/s)

Storage Drive: 3GB SSD (500MB/s)

Video: Vegas Pro 16 Suite / DaVinci Resolve 16 Studio

Audio: PreSonus Studio One Pro 4

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aboammar wrote on 1/11/2017, 1:16 PM

Everyone complains about how dated Vegas's interface is, and yet AVID has not changed UI since the beginning of time itself. ;) Yet almost all oscar winning films are edited on AVIDs interface, hmm.

A software interface is like a musical instrument, if it works and people like it, why re-order the keys on a piano just to "look" better?

Every NLE interface has serious problems with that fine line between creative simplicity and engineering complexity.

You are wrong .. Avid MC updated the interface over the years, and they made the interface darker as well.

Compare the first versions with the latest versions, and you will see what I mean. The latest version has a modern-looking interface with its dark theme.

HP Z1 AIO Workstation G3

OS: Windows 10 Pro 64bit

Display: 23.6" UHD 4K

CPU: Xeon E3-1270 v5  quad-core @ 3.60GHz, 8MB cache, up to 4GHz with Intel Turbo Boost Technology

GPU: nVidia Quadro M2000M 4GB

RAM: 32GB DDR4 2133MHz ECC memory

System Drive: 1TB M.2 (2500MB/s)

Working Drive: 1TB M.2 (2500MB/s)

Storage Drive: 3GB SSD (500MB/s)

Video: Vegas Pro 16 Suite / DaVinci Resolve 16 Studio

Audio: PreSonus Studio One Pro 4

Graphics: CorelDraw Technical Suite 2018 / Xara Designer Pro X

Image Editing: Corel PhotoPaint 2018 / Corel PaintShop Pro X9 Ultimate / PHASEONE Capture One Pro 11

3D Graphics: Maxon Cinema 4D Studio 10

Website: www.innoviahouse.com

Vimeo: vimeo.com/innoviahouse