Too many versions make it like a subscription service?

Malcolm-Hitch wrote on 7/9/2020, 5:25 AM

Bit of a moan! It seems to me that Vegas 17 hasn't been out that long, released In August 2019 and now around the corner Vegas 18! On investigating the version history, it looks like every year there is a version change! This latest 'Upgrade' requires another $249 of my hard earned cash to upgrade form 17 to 18 and I feel like it's become a subscription piece of software like Premier? When Vegas18 comes along, no doubt all support for improving Vegas 17 will stop putting a little pressure to upgrade yet again! Does anyone feel the same or am I on my own with this?

Comments

j-v wrote on 7/9/2020, 6:05 AM

My feeling is that I'm still the one who makes the decisions and nobody else and the decisions can be made based on a good trial of a program.

met vriendelijke groet
Marten

Camera : Pan X900, GoPro Hero7 Hero Black, DJI Osmo Pocket, Samsung Galaxy A8
Desktop :MB Gigabyte Z390M, W11 home version 23H2, i7 9700 4.7Ghz,16 DDR4 GB RAM, Gef. GTX 1660 Ti with driver
551.23 Studiodriver and Intel HD graphics 630 with driver 31.0.101.2127
Laptop  :Asus ROG Str G712L, W11 home version 23H2, CPU i7-10875H, 16 GB RAM, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2070 with Studiodriver 551.23 and Intel UHD Graphics 630 with driver 31.0.101.2127
Vegas software: VP 10 to 21 and VMS(pl) 10,12 to 17.
TV      :LG 4K 55EG960V

My slogan is: BE OR BECOME A STEM CELL DONOR!!! (because it saved my life in 2016)

 

Dexcon wrote on 7/9/2020, 6:18 AM

With Vegas Pro, the major difference is that by following the upgrade path, you decide whether or not to upgrade each year (which is what j-v is alluding to) whereas a subscription purchase means that you continue paying year after year unless you go to the trouble of ceasing the subscription.

Also, my understanding is that with a subscription to Premiere (the only purchase option), if you stop the subscription, you totally lose access to Premiere until you resume subscribing again. At least with Vegas Pro, if you stop the subscription, you can continue using Vegas Pro in its state at the point of cancellation. I am not sure whether or not a ceased 365 subscription is entitled to an upgrade option in the future - I've not seen any mention of that is the past.

Cameras: Sony FDR-AX100E; GoPro Hero 11 Black Creator Edition

Installed: Vegas Pro 16, 17, 18, 19, 20 & 21, HitFilm Pro 2021.3, DaVinci Resolve Studio 18.5, BCC 2023.5, Mocha Pro 2023, Ignite Pro, NBFX TotalFX 7, Neat NR, DVD Architect 6.0, MAGIX Travel Maps, Sound Forge Pro 16, SpectraLayers Pro 11, iZotope RX10 Advanced and many other iZ plugins, Vegasaur 4.0

Windows 11

Dell Alienware Aurora 11

10th Gen Intel i9 10900KF - 10 cores (20 threads) - 3.7 to 5.3 GHz

NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2080 SUPER 8GB GDDR6 - liquid cooled

64GB RAM - Dual Channel HyperX FURY DDR4 XMP at 3200MHz

C drive: 12TB Samsung 990 PCIe 4.0 NVMe M.2 PCIe SSD

D: drive: 4TB Samsung 870 SATA SSD (used for media for editing current projects)

E: drive: 2TB Samsung 870 SATA SSD

F: drive: 6TB WD 7200 rpm Black HDD 3.5"

Dell Ultrasharp 32" 4K Color Calibrated Monitor

rraud wrote on 7/9/2020, 9:57 AM

I do not think 365 entities one to the upgrade purchase price. 365 can only be activated on one PC.. period, A purchased version of VP can be used on two PCs at a time, and others, if one is deactivated

rstrong wrote on 7/9/2020, 12:05 PM

Hmmm, I think coming out with a new version so soon is a bit much. How come Magix? So, no more fixes to VP17?

R. Strong

Custom remote refrigerated water cooled system for CPU & GPU. Intel i7- 6950X, 10 Core (4.3 Turbo) 64gb DDR4, Win7 64 Bit, SP1. Nvidia RTX 2080, Studio driver 431.36, Cameras: Sony HVR-Z5U, HVR-V1U, HVR-A1U, HDR-HC3. Canon 5K MK2, SX50HS. GoPro Hero2. Nikon CoolPix P510. YouTube: rstrongvideo

j-v wrote on 7/9/2020, 12:19 PM

Hmmm, I think coming out with a new version so soon is a bit much. How come Magix? So, no more fixes to VP17?

Soon???
Vegas Pro 17 was released more than 11 month's ago and there is no new version this month.......
Yess we live in a fast world but this will be not too fast for a program that follow this fast world.
Updated caused by for me strange englisch dates compared to european:

VEGAS_CommunityManager wrote on 8/5/2019, 10:51 AM

Dear community,

We know you have been waiting eagerly. (especially you @lan-mLMC 😉) And now, the big day has here – the release of the new version – VEGAS Pro 17. With more than 30 new features VEGAS Pro 17 has hit a new milestone.

 

Last changed by j-v on 7/9/2020, 1:37 PM, changed a total of 1 times.

met vriendelijke groet
Marten

Camera : Pan X900, GoPro Hero7 Hero Black, DJI Osmo Pocket, Samsung Galaxy A8
Desktop :MB Gigabyte Z390M, W11 home version 23H2, i7 9700 4.7Ghz,16 DDR4 GB RAM, Gef. GTX 1660 Ti with driver
551.23 Studiodriver and Intel HD graphics 630 with driver 31.0.101.2127
Laptop  :Asus ROG Str G712L, W11 home version 23H2, CPU i7-10875H, 16 GB RAM, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2070 with Studiodriver 551.23 and Intel UHD Graphics 630 with driver 31.0.101.2127
Vegas software: VP 10 to 21 and VMS(pl) 10,12 to 17.
TV      :LG 4K 55EG960V

My slogan is: BE OR BECOME A STEM CELL DONOR!!! (because it saved my life in 2016)

 

Malcolm-Hitch wrote on 7/9/2020, 1:13 PM

Hmmm, I think coming out with a new version so soon is a bit much. How come Magix? So, no more fixes to VP17?

Soon???
Vegas Pro 17 was released more than 14 month's ago and there is no new version this month.......
Yess we live in a fast world but this will be not too fast for a program that follow this fast world.

 

That's interesting, the release of Vegas 17 was early August 2019, we're not even halfway through July so not even a year yet?

Kinvermark wrote on 7/9/2020, 1:25 PM

@Malcolm-Hitch

I think you have a point. Not a subscription because you CAN stop paying and still use the software, but yes there is a subtle pressure to upgrade every year if you are waiting for a fix. Personally, I always trial each version (and sub release ) and will not buy if it is not stable for my purposes. Also, I recommend only upgrading every second version, and waiting for the inevitable $150 upgrade deal for the Edit version. Of course, some guys are still on 14, so that is really "economical." :)

j-v wrote on 7/9/2020, 1:41 PM

That's interesting, the release of Vegas 17 was early August 2019, we're not even halfway through July so not even a year yet?

Sorry my mistake, I corrected the comment.

met vriendelijke groet
Marten

Camera : Pan X900, GoPro Hero7 Hero Black, DJI Osmo Pocket, Samsung Galaxy A8
Desktop :MB Gigabyte Z390M, W11 home version 23H2, i7 9700 4.7Ghz,16 DDR4 GB RAM, Gef. GTX 1660 Ti with driver
551.23 Studiodriver and Intel HD graphics 630 with driver 31.0.101.2127
Laptop  :Asus ROG Str G712L, W11 home version 23H2, CPU i7-10875H, 16 GB RAM, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2070 with Studiodriver 551.23 and Intel UHD Graphics 630 with driver 31.0.101.2127
Vegas software: VP 10 to 21 and VMS(pl) 10,12 to 17.
TV      :LG 4K 55EG960V

My slogan is: BE OR BECOME A STEM CELL DONOR!!! (because it saved my life in 2016)

 

Malcolm-Hitch wrote on 7/9/2020, 1:45 PM

I started off with Vegas 4 under Sonic foundry, when they released a new version, older versions would still get updates to cure problems. Then under Sony these updates were dropped as soon as a new version emerged and MAGIX has carried on in that vane, but every year as opposed to Sony's every two years!

3d87c4 wrote on 7/9/2020, 2:18 PM

I don't mind paying for regular updates, based on the premise that the updates will be of value and paying for them helps support the company so they can continue improving the program.

My concern is many of the updates weren't particularly useful to me, and required multiple updates to be stable. Thus I bought them, but Sony Vegas 13 has remained my main tool. I am impressed with V17, but haven't been able to really use it due to the COVID-19 restrictions---just can't get out to shoot and edit what I used to.


 

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Installed RAM    32.0 GB (31.7 GB usable)
System type    64-bit operating system, x64-based processor
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peter-mcintyre wrote on 7/9/2020, 2:35 PM

I am getting on a bit … I learned page layout on Pagemaker in the 1980s before switching to Quark Express and then InDesign. I have used Photoshop since the 1990s. There is a huge difference between annual upgrades (which you can choose to buy or not) and a subscription system. When Adobe was still more interested in the software than in taking its users prisoner, I used to buy every other upgrade. I still have and use CS5 and carefully transfer it when I change my computer.  All jobs, careers, work lives (and indeed lives) come to a close and when you stop earning you cannot afford software that charges you by the month. A subscription service is an unwarranted tax on people who are not high earners and an insult to long-term users. I have no objection to Vegas producing a new version every year so long as I can decide whether or not I need it. At the moment it is very cost-effective. If there was a subscription service I would not be in it.

vkmast wrote on 7/9/2020, 2:47 PM

@peter-mcintyre +1. (Actually VEGAS does have a subscription option as well though. See VEGAS Pro 365 and VEGAS POST 365 on the product pages.)

VEGASDerek wrote on 7/9/2020, 3:09 PM

but every year as opposed to Sony's every two years!

Not true...new versions of VEGAS were released every year up until VP 12 (starting in 2001 and continuing to 2012). Version 13 took some extra time due (and was in early released in 2014) to the fact that the development team at that point was vastly reduced in size. After that, Sony stopped working on VEGAS. VP 14 was then released by VEGAS Creative Software in September of 2016 and we have since resumed a similar schedule to what the previous owner had.

michael-harrison wrote on 7/9/2020, 3:40 PM

@vkmast I fervently hope that us vp17 users will get another bugfix patch along with the release of 18. While I don't really need any of the new features (yes, I wouldn't mind having them but *need* is different) but I do need more stability out of VP. I just upgraded in March so I'm not keen to upgrade again just yet.

System 1:

Windows 10
i9-10850K 10 Core
128.0G RAM
Nvidia GTX 1660 Studio [most likely latest]
Resolution        1920 x 1080 x 60 hertz
Video Memory 6G GDDR5

 

System 2:

Lenovo Yoga 720
Core i7-7700 2.8Ghz quad core, 8 logical
16G ram
Intel HD 630 gpu 1G vram
Nvidia GTX 1050 gpu 2G vram

 

jetdv wrote on 7/9/2020, 5:19 PM

Typically, release dates with Sony were 12 to18 months depending on if it was released at NAB or IBC. Here's the dates I have in my file:

 

Vegas 17 was released August 2019
Vegas 16 was released August 2018
Vegas 15 was released August 2017
Vegas 14 was released September 2016
(Magix purchased it in May 2016)
Vegas 13 was released April 2014 (NAB)
Vegas 12 was released September 2012 (IBC)
Vegas 11 was released September 2011 (IBC)
Vegas 10 was released October 2010 (just after IBC)
Vegas 9 was released April 2009 (NAB)
Vegas 8 was released September 2007. (IBC)
Vegas 7 was released September 2006. (IBC)
Vegas 6 was released April 2005. (NAB)
Vegas 5 was released April 2004. (NAB)
(Sony purchased it in mid 2003)
Vegas 4 was released April 2003 but had a public beta starting around January.
Vegas 3 was somewhere around December 2001
Vegas 2 was released June 2000
Vegas 1 was released July 1999

Former user wrote on 7/9/2020, 5:50 PM

Constantly introducing new features with bugs with a new Version and never fixing them within 1 year and no updates after looks bad I feel. Especially because they continue to sell the previous years vegaspro, I would be happier if they fixed bugs for 2 years. Peace of mind.... but then maybe you wont' upgrade

Dexcon wrote on 7/10/2020, 7:23 AM

but then maybe you wont' upgrade

Too true. But if a company doesn't provide a reason to upgrade, usually with new features, there's vastly reduced annual cash flow other than with new purchases. A good way to go out of business. This is not just limited with Vegas Pro and other software companies, but the broad range of consumer goods including TVs and other consumer electronics, cars, whitegoods and so on.

There was an Ealing comedy in 1951 called 'The Man in the White Suit' where a scientist invented a material for suits that never creased, frayed, aged or deteriorated. A boon for consumers, but the company's board soon realised that once they sold a customer a suit that customer wouldn't need to buy another one ever again. The downside of the premise was that it didn't take into account that new sales could be generated with the change in styles - the equivalent of new features in software I suppose.

Cameras: Sony FDR-AX100E; GoPro Hero 11 Black Creator Edition

Installed: Vegas Pro 16, 17, 18, 19, 20 & 21, HitFilm Pro 2021.3, DaVinci Resolve Studio 18.5, BCC 2023.5, Mocha Pro 2023, Ignite Pro, NBFX TotalFX 7, Neat NR, DVD Architect 6.0, MAGIX Travel Maps, Sound Forge Pro 16, SpectraLayers Pro 11, iZotope RX10 Advanced and many other iZ plugins, Vegasaur 4.0

Windows 11

Dell Alienware Aurora 11

10th Gen Intel i9 10900KF - 10 cores (20 threads) - 3.7 to 5.3 GHz

NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2080 SUPER 8GB GDDR6 - liquid cooled

64GB RAM - Dual Channel HyperX FURY DDR4 XMP at 3200MHz

C drive: 12TB Samsung 990 PCIe 4.0 NVMe M.2 PCIe SSD

D: drive: 4TB Samsung 870 SATA SSD (used for media for editing current projects)

E: drive: 2TB Samsung 870 SATA SSD

F: drive: 6TB WD 7200 rpm Black HDD 3.5"

Dell Ultrasharp 32" 4K Color Calibrated Monitor

Reyfox wrote on 7/11/2020, 1:22 PM

There has to be a reason for "me" to upgrade. Mind you, I am retired and edit for my own pleasure now doing work for my church and myself. The occasional request to do a wedding or special event if it fits into my schedule. So my needs are low. But I enjoy editing and enjoy using Vegas. So my "addiction" if you will, is editing software. For "me" the cost averaged over a year is nothing. I have no other "vices". The mental stimulation and satisfaction when a project is completed, I can't put a price on.

So I will wait and see what VP18 brings. I am sure something nice. Then I will decide..... but the smell of new software, and the "itch" does need to be scratched!

Last changed by Reyfox on 7/12/2020, 6:44 AM, changed a total of 1 times.

Newbie😁

Vegas Post 365 (Currently VP21)

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AMD Ryzen 9 5950X 16 cores / 32 threads

32GB DDR4 3200

Sapphire RX6700XT 12GB Driver: 22.5.1, testing 24.1.1

Gigabyte X570 Elite Motherboard

Film_Digital wrote on 7/11/2020, 2:44 PM

2¢: I think it's pretty common that combo upgrade/subscription services have about a 1 year release period (think Capture One) and people obviously play the game of subscription service price vs. upgrade where possible. I haven't kept up with Adobe (left the day they went subscription only and watching HItFilm take on AE) but it seems some of their work is largely UI although new features do make their appearance. As I've noted elsewhere, I like the Magix approach: you choose the plan that best fits your needs/paranoia. My paranoia is to always "own".

Former user wrote on 7/11/2020, 7:30 PM

Vegas365 costs $US16.67 per month, the upgrade to VP18edit/pro costs $200/$250 which is $16.67/$20.83 per month. They basically are charging most of you a sub fee if you upgrade annually. Some people benefit by owing previous versions, such as with vp16 being more stable then vp17 with various files and tasks, while others won't ever have a use for it again. It concerns me that if this is the business model, they need to never give you everything at once, they have to give you at least 1 killer reason to upgrade every year, but if they give you everything, you'll cancel your sub.

Dr Zen wrote on 7/11/2020, 9:56 PM

This sounds like a knitting club in the old folks home (hopefully not in Sweden, there's probably no one left alive).
I'm sure I'm about to annoy a bunch of egos, but I'm tired of the constant moaning, when far more important things are happening in the world.

Be grateful Vegas Creative Software & Magix didn't pull an Adobe and force EVERYONE into the ransom-ware model. That model is earning Adobe billions of dollars now, like a Mexican drug cartel, but I still hear Adobe users complaining about all the bugs that never get fixed. I guess there too busy counting the gold bars.

Magix & Vegas Creative Software have given us a choice - thank you Magix/Vegas for NOT being greedy like Adobe. Most software companies have 12 monthly release cycles - nothing extraordinary about that. Cyberlink comes out with a new media player every year (which I find absurd), but I only upgrade maybe every 3 or 5 years.

At the moment we still live in a capitalist society, so all companies need regular sales or they die.
Once warp drive is discovered, maybe the money tree will die and not be needed anymore.

Last time I checked, Vegas is continuously releasing bug fixes and they have always done so for many years.
125 x bugs have been fixed since Vegas Pro 17 was released.
27 x additional new features (after first version) have been added to VP17.

There will always be some bugs that may effect YOU, but not many others - there is a list of priorities and you can't always please everyone. There's always one Martian Vegan who can't handle the death of a carrot.

No one is forcing anyone to upgrade/buy. You upgrade when you think there is enough value in the new version.

I don't think many people pay attention enough, but if you did, you would know that Vegas often has many Sales for Vegas365. It is often on sale for up to 30% - 40% off for a full 12 months - that's a lot cheaper than buying the upgrade. Yes I know what you will say next, so just don't.

Be grateful Magix saved Vegas Pro and Vegas Movie Studio.
Be grateful for the long hours and hard work Gary, Derek and the entire crew are doing, on a shoestring budget compared to Adobe.
Be grateful Vegas Creative Software didn't become a Mexican drug cartel.

The glass is more than half full, not empty.

Peace be with you all and stay safe.
Derek Moran, Australia.

EricLNZ wrote on 7/11/2020, 10:15 PM

Well said, Derek.

FayFen wrote on 7/11/2020, 11:18 PM

my 2c is simple,

A new version launch should be followed in a month by a hotfix build for the previous version, as surly some work on the new version will benefit the later.

walter-i. wrote on 7/12/2020, 3:52 AM

This sounds like a knitting club in the old folks home (hopefully not in Sweden, there's probably no one left alive).
I'm sure I'm about to annoy a bunch of egos, but I'm tired of the constant moaning, when far more important things are happening in the world.

Be grateful Vegas Creative Software & Magix didn't pull an Adobe and force EVERYONE into the ransom-ware model. That model is earning Adobe billions of dollars now, like a Mexican drug cartel, but I still hear Adobe users complaining about all the bugs that never get fixed. I guess there too busy counting the gold bars.

Magix & Vegas Creative Software have given us a choice - thank you Magix/Vegas for NOT being greedy like Adobe. Most software companies have 12 monthly release cycles - nothing extraordinary about that. Cyberlink comes out with a new media player every year (which I find absurd), but I only upgrade maybe every 3 or 5 years.

At the moment we still live in a capitalist society, so all companies need regular sales or they die.
Once warp drive is discovered, maybe the money tree will die and not be needed anymore.

Last time I checked, Vegas is continuously releasing bug fixes and they have always done so for many years.
125 x bugs have been fixed since Vegas Pro 17 was released.
27 x additional new features (after first version) have been added to VP17.

There will always be some bugs that may effect YOU, but not many others - there is a list of priorities and you can't always please everyone. There's always one Martian Vegan who can't handle the death of a carrot.

No one is forcing anyone to upgrade/buy. You upgrade when you think there is enough value in the new version.

I don't think many people pay attention enough, but if you did, you would know that Vegas often has many Sales for Vegas365. It is often on sale for up to 30% - 40% off for a full 12 months - that's a lot cheaper than buying the upgrade. Yes I know what you will say next, so just don't.

Be grateful Magix saved Vegas Pro and Vegas Movie Studio.
Be grateful for the long hours and hard work Gary, Derek and the entire crew are doing, on a shoestring budget compared to Adobe.
Be grateful Vegas Creative Software didn't become a Mexican drug cartel.

The glass is more than half full, not empty.

Peace be with you all and stay safe.
Derek Moran, Australia.

+1 Complete agreement @Dr Zen