Vegas Pro 20 ProRes RAW: Only Showing Audio On Timeline

j.razz wrote on 8/10/2022, 11:43 AM

I have the following:
Atomos Ninja V
Canon r5

I can import to the timeline ProRes 422 footage captured with the above equipment and both video and audio display as expected.
I cannot import the video stream of a ProRes RAW file to the timeline. It will only add the audio portion to the timeline. No error is given.

I downloaded the latest version of QuickTime from the prompt that came up in Vegas when I first attempted to add a ProRes file to the timeline (.mov). I could have went into deprecated features and turned on quicktime, but I went ahead and downloaded directly from Apple.

Anyone else able to speak to this?

Here is the information on the two files:

ProRes RAW:
Complete name :NINJAV_S001_S001_T018.MOV
Format : MPEG-4
Format profile : QuickTime
Codec ID : qt 2005.03 (qt )
File size : 1.77 GiB
Duration : 11 s 211 ms
Overall bit rate mode : Variable
Overall bit rate : 1 356 Mb/s
Encoded date : UTC 2022-08-10 11:10:08
Tagged date : UTC 2022-08-10 11:10:08
Writing library : Apple QuickTime
com.apple.proapps.manufacturer : Canon
com.atomos.hdr.monitormode : Native
com.apple.proapps.modelname : Canon EOS R5
com.apple.proapps.exif.{Exif}.FNumber : 2.800
org.smpte.rdd18.lens.irisfnumber : F2.8
org.smpte.rdd18.camera.shutterspeed_angl : 0.0deg
org.smpte.rdd18.camera.whitebalance : 3135K
com.apple.proapps.exif.{Exif}.ExposureIn : 2000.000
org.smpte.rdd18.camera.isosensitivity : 2000
com.apple.proresraw.whitebalance.bycct.w : (Binary)
com.apple.proapps.exif.{ExifAux}.LensMod : RF24-70mm F2.8 L IS USM
org.smpte.rdd18.lens.lensattributes : RF24-70mm F2.8 L IS USM
com.atomos.raw.intermediate_oetf : CLog2
com.atomos.raw.intermediate_gamut : CanonCinema
com.apple.proapps.image.{TIFF}.Make : Atomos
com.apple.proapps.image.{TIFF}.Model : NinjaV
com.apple.proapps.image.{TIFF}.Software : 10.76

Video
ID : 2
Format : ProRes
Format version : Version 0
Format profile : RAW
Codec ID : aprn
Duration : 11 s 211 ms
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 1 354 Mb/s
Width : 5 120 pixels
Height : 2 696 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 1.899
Frame rate mode : Constant
Frame rate : 29.970 (30000/1001) FPS
Color space : A
Scan type : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 3.273
Stream size : 1.77 GiB (100%)
Writing library : atm0
Language : English
Encoded date : UTC 2022-08-10 11:10:08
Tagged date : UTC 2022-08-10 11:10:08

Audio
ID : 1
Format : PCM
Format settings : Little / Signed
Codec ID : in24
Duration : 11 s 211 ms
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 2 304 kb/s
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Channel layout : L R
Sampling rate : 48.0 kHz
Bit depth : 24 bits
Stream size : 1.54 MiB (0%)
Language : English
Encoded date : UTC 2022-08-10 11:10:08
Tagged date : UTC 2022-08-10 11:10:08

Other
ID : 3
Type : Time code
Format : QuickTime TC
Duration : 11 s 211 ms
Frame rate : 29.970 (30000/1001) FPS
Time code of first frame : 08:20:42;04
Time code of last frame : 08:20:53;09
Time code, striped : Yes
Language : English
Encoded date : UTC 2022-08-10 11:10:08
Tagged date : UTC 2022-08-10 11:10:08

ProRes 422:

General
Complete name : NINJAV_S001_S001_T016.MOV
Format : MPEG-4
Format profile : QuickTime
Codec ID : qt 2005.03 (qt )
File size : 1.83 GiB
Duration : 9 s 643 ms
Overall bit rate mode : Variable
Overall bit rate : 1 633 Mb/s
Encoded date : UTC 2022-08-10 10:29:28
Tagged date : UTC 2022-08-10 10:29:28
Writing library : Apple QuickTime
com.atomos.hdr.gamut : Rec709
com.atomos.hdr.gamma : Rec709
com.atomos.hdr.monitormode : Native
com.atomos.hdr.range : Legal
com.apple.proapps.image.{TIFF}.Make : Atomos
com.apple.proapps.image.{TIFF}.Model : NinjaV
com.apple.proapps.image.{TIFF}.Software : 10.76

Video
ID : 2
Format : ProRes
Format version : Version 0
Format profile : 422 HQ
Codec ID : apch
Duration : 9 s 643 ms
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 1 631 Mb/s
Width : 3 840 pixels
Height : 2 160 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate mode : Constant
Frame rate : 59.940 (60000/1001) FPS
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:2
Scan type : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 3.281
Stream size : 1.83 GiB (100%)
Writing library : atms
Language : English
Encoded date : UTC 2022-08-10 10:29:28
Tagged date : UTC 2022-08-10 10:29:28
Color primaries : BT.709
Transfer characteristics : BT.709
Matrix coefficients : BT.709

Audio
ID : 1
Format : PCM
Format settings : Little / Signed
Codec ID : in24
Duration : 9 s 643 ms
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 2 304 kb/s
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Channel layout : L R
Sampling rate : 48.0 kHz
Bit depth : 24 bits
Stream size : 1.32 MiB (0%)
Language : English
Encoded date : UTC 2022-08-10 10:29:28
Tagged date : UTC 2022-08-10 10:29:28

Other
ID : 3
Type : Time code
Format : QuickTime TC
Duration : 9 s 643 ms
Frame rate : 59.940 (60000/1001) FPS
Time code of first frame : 08:20:23;18
Time code of last frame : 08:20:32;55
Time code, striped : Yes
Language : English
Encoded date : UTC 2022-08-10 10:29:28
Tagged date : UTC 2022-08-10 10:29:28

Comments

fr0sty wrote on 8/10/2022, 11:50 AM

I think official ProRes RAW support is coming soon in an update. There's an approval process that has to happen with Apple before they can release it, and (I think) they just got that wrapped up, but it didn't make the release deadline... it shouldn't be long before the first update drops. Hopefully that sorts it.

j.razz wrote on 8/10/2022, 11:57 AM

Ah. I did read that thread prior to posting, but I thought it was good to go for two reasons: 1. That thread is old, and 2. It's being advertised on their "what's new" page for Vegas 20.

I wish they would have stated it was coming in a future update and that would have saved me troubleshooting and testing time. No worries though so long as it does come soon. Thanks for letting me know it's not just me.

Former user wrote on 8/10/2022, 12:23 PM

@j.razz Hi, have you got a clip you could share on Google drive etc,, ?

j.razz wrote on 8/10/2022, 1:17 PM

@Former user, here you go: https://file.io/P0FZyXe9tVT6

This is the same file I was using, just for testing ProRes Raw in Vegas 20.

Howard-Vigorita wrote on 8/10/2022, 2:28 PM

Looks like the above upload was deleted. I just uploaded a zip with a 2 second snippit of one I shot a while back to test with the Vegas 19 first release. With the metadata that got truncated in the snipping process:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1OFheBifTju_Mve7HfKfKuHO1QdzRMmXz/view?usp=sharing

VEGASDerek wrote on 8/10/2022, 2:46 PM

This is a mistake on the website. PreRes RAW is not supported and is not certified by Apple for VEGAS Pro 20. We will have this corrected shortly.

gary-rebholz wrote on 8/10/2022, 2:48 PM

@j.razz, The ProRes Raw logo on the What's New page is a (rather embarrassing) mistake. It should have been a ProRes logo. We will have that corrected as soon as possible.

Steve_Rhoden wrote on 8/10/2022, 3:08 PM

So looking forward to having full Prores Raw support in the future....

j.razz wrote on 8/10/2022, 4:36 PM

@gary-rebholz @VEGASDerek am I reading into your comments that ProRes RAW isn't going to be supported in Vegas 20? I hope I'm reading that wrong.

But thanks for letting me know. I appreciate you guys.

fr0sty wrote on 8/10/2022, 4:41 PM

They are bound by whenever Apple decides to approve it... We're all hoping it works out in time. They aren't going to commit to something that could change, so I wouldn't expect anything but a "no" from them on ProRes Raw until they know Apple is going to approve their code.

gary-rebholz wrote on 8/10/2022, 4:41 PM

@j.razz, no, I didn't say that. Just not in this initial release. No promises, but we do intend to get it into 20 when we can. In that case, it would come to you in a free update. But again, this is the future and I can't make any assurances other than that we will try.

j.razz wrote on 8/10/2022, 4:47 PM

That's all I needed to know. Thanks @gary-rebholz!

And thanks for helping to clarify too @fr0sty. ProRes RAW was the driving factor in me upgrading to 20 with the Hues as a close second.

Thanks guys!

fr0sty wrote on 8/10/2022, 4:53 PM

You'll be happy to know there's multiple types of hue curves on the way as well, this is just the beginning of that feature.

j.razz wrote on 8/10/2022, 5:02 PM

@fr0sty Nice! Having grading tools that don't involve the color corrector or secondary color corrector plugins is a definite move in the right direction :)

Former user wrote on 8/10/2022, 5:46 PM

@j.razz @Howard-Vigorita Thanks for uploading that clip, just for the record nothing i have will open that file, MEP, DaVinci Resolve, Hitfilm Pro, not even Boris Silhouette or Mocha Pro who do tend to have a bias in favour with Apple, Adobe & ProRes with their products,

Former user wrote on 8/10/2022, 11:41 PM

Edius another small niche NLE can play the files fine. It will play Prores Raw without GPU processing, although it uses 100% CPU, but at 4K25 it plays smoothly enough to edit. Turning on GPU processing for Raw, cpu goes down to 35%. There would be no way Apple would allow Prores raw to decode using CPU alone, but I think it very unlikely Vegas could get GPU processing/decode to work for raw formats without a new render engine, and there's no sign of that.

Promises of BRAW and ProresRaw should never have been made, certification not possible for Pores Raw, and Braw without GPU support is silly . Never buy on a promise.

Edius could play both BlackMagic Raw and Pores Raw in 2019, and that's their selling feature, it will play anything (their tagline not mine) but Vegas is the polar opposite.

fr0sty wrote on 8/11/2022, 12:44 AM

I've seen VEGAS decode ProRes RAW just fine myself, and it decodes just fine. So does BRAW. At the time the only thing that was yet to be implemented was the metadata control panel. Other than that, PRRAW worked great.

If you're going to be critical of VEGAS, it's helpful to have an advanced understanding of what is happening under the hood, otherwise you stand to make big assumptions based on flawed info, assumptions that do real damage to the brand and aren't deserved.

jomomultimedia wrote on 8/19/2022, 9:29 AM

I've seen VEGAS decode ProRes RAW just fine myself, and it decodes just fine. So does BRAW. At the time the only thing that was yet to be implemented was the metadata control panel. Other than that, PRRAW worked great.

If you're going to be critical of VEGAS, it's helpful to have an advanced understanding of what is happening under the hood, otherwise you stand to make big assumptions based on flawed info, assumptions that do real damage to the brand and aren't deserved.

It literally had the ProRes RAW logo on the sales materials for Vegas 20. Handwaving that away is a bridge too far. There's a difference (a very important and potentially legally significant difference) between people relying on "rumors" or rando Reddit threads and people relying on actual sales materials that Magix releases to the public.

Former user wrote on 8/19/2022, 6:59 PM

I've seen VEGAS decode ProRes RAW just fine myself, and it decodes just fine. So does BRAW. At the time the only thing that was yet to be implemented was the metadata control panel. Other than that, PRRAW worked great.

@fr0sty I didn't see this until now. But are you saying it was using GPU processing to decode these raw formats with the beta's you've used?

I believe I also tested ProRes Raw a long time ago, but didn't see any sign of GPU use. As I mentioned, and as you know they can be decoded using CPU alone but that undermines the format

fr0sty wrote on 8/19/2022, 8:14 PM

I don't remember, to be honest, but I do remember it decoding just fine, without issues. Tested BRAW too, it did show GPU in use (3D, not GPU decode, which makes sense because this is GPU acceleration, not full hardware decoding using the decoder), and decoded at full frame rate... and my CPU is nothing special, Ryzen 7 1800x. Several years old.

Howard-Vigorita wrote on 8/20/2022, 8:48 PM

I didn't see this until now. But are you saying it was using GPU processing to decode these raw formats with the beta's you've used?
I believe I also tested ProRes Raw a long time ago, but didn't see any sign of GPU use. As I mentioned, and as you know they can be decoded using CPU alone but that undermines the format

@Former user I specifically recall when trying prores raw back when vp19 first came out that I saw significant activity in the Intel igpus. It wasn't decoder utilization, however. It was 3D. Amd gpus showed a bump in copy utilization. Don't remember what the Nvidia in my laptop did exactly. But it played very smoothly everywhere.

Former user wrote on 8/20/2022, 9:16 PM

@Former user I specifically recall when trying prores raw back when vp19 first came out that I saw significant activity in the Intel igpus. It wasn't decoder utilization, however. It was 3D. Amd gpus showed a bump in copy utilization. Don't remember what the Nvidia in my laptop did exactly. But it played very smoothly everywhere.

@Impossible_to_tag_howard With my Nvidia playback was very bad , nothing like the demonstration Frosty showed recently of BRAW. It was similar to the playback you show here

vkmast wrote on 8/21/2022, 12:08 AM

@Former user try typing only Vigorita @Howard-Vigorita

Howard-Vigorita wrote on 8/21/2022, 2:22 PM

@Former user Playback looks smoother when I'm not capturing the 4k screen at the same time. I was just looking at the footage on a moderately powered Intel Nuc8, where I keep an early vp19 release installed just for prr, and it plays smoothly there too. That machine does have an hd630 igpu and it too shows lots of 3d utilization when playing even though the hdmi I'm plugged into is internally wired into the onboard VegaM.