Black and White Icons Are Wasting My Time

john_dennis wrote on 10/3/2016, 12:00 AM

Well, it's taken me three days of testing Vegas 14 to be able to see the difference betwen the Open and the Import Media icons. I kept wondering why everything I selected went straight to the timeline. I finally realized that I was using the wrong icon. I never would have figured it out if I hadn't had Vegas 13 to compare to, then I hoovered over them both until the Windows bubble message appeared.

Yes, this amount of frustration deserves yet another thread.  

Comments

NickHope wrote on 10/3/2016, 12:47 AM

They're actually quite a different shape. Can't you work out the difference between them by the fact that one is at the top left of the main window and the other is at the top left of the Project Media window?

I'm hoping a "Use Vegas Pro 13 icons" option in the internal preferences of the next build. MAGIX, that would be an excellent way to quell all this dissent.

john_dennis wrote on 10/3/2016, 1:54 AM

Different people respond differently to pictoral, verbal and aural stimulation. Of the three, I would recognise aural first, then text, then pictures. I was in a demonstration of brain dominance once where slides were flashed on a screen and the audience was asked to respond quickly, out loud, to what they saw. An example of the slides were the word "blue" in red letters. Part of the audience would shout "blue" responding to the text and part of the audience would shout "red" responding to the color. I would consistently read the text. I'm not very sensitive to pictographs (icons). I usually don't get the analogy. So, I memorize them by shape and color. Take away the color differences and the shapes are more difficult for me to discriminate. 

When faced with international symbols for rest rooms I always stop, look back and forth comparing the two symbols before proceeding through the door. With text on the door, I don't even slow down.

Sedazin wrote on 10/3/2016, 2:35 AM

Perhaps people in the development should invite some guys that are familiar with the topic of 'human factor engineering'. It is something that usually goes with a low priority in specification and development or is completely absent from the engineering process but it is well worth to be integrated.

PeterDuke wrote on 10/3/2016, 3:33 AM

I suspect that the new icons are part of a band wagon effect (the latest fashion). Less distracting? Simpler looking? Faster to create or run? KISS - Keep It Simple Stupid?

So far as human factor engineering is concerned, I suspect that some human interface designers forget the need/can't afford the time/think it unnecessary/etc. for testing with a substantial sized random sample from the target population. Beta testers are possibly too busy looking for bugs and major issues rather than nuisances.

Sedazin wrote on 10/3/2016, 6:33 AM

Developers und most testers and beta-testers are aware of the product and its functionality. In most cases they are familiar with the general operation and experienced with the technology. Human beings can adapt to nearly anything if there is enough time to adapt. The usual testers won't give you any feedback on usability as long as you do not change big things. It is also possible that no requirements on the UI design exist and due to that the testers do not have anything to verify in this context. I am working with software that was launched in 1994. Nobody cared about the UI design in this time. It was driven by the developers itself ...

john_dennis wrote on 10/3/2016, 3:13 PM

Look at this behavior. Isn't it elegant?

I'll pass on the eye-frying overall color scheme.

 

james-ollick wrote on 10/28/2016, 12:31 PM

I am in favor of the color icons, please bring them back and/or let us have a selection in the settings to have them in color or black and white. Please **** make it so.

Last changed by NickHope on 10/28/2016, 11:01 PM, changed a total of 1 times.

Reason: Name and address of Magix staff removed in accordance with community rule #9

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JohnnyRoy wrote on 10/29/2016, 7:27 AM

This is a disturbing trend in the computer industry as a whole. It is not unique to MAGIX. UI's are getting flatter and darker with less contrast and no color. It's insanity! 

Apple just release Final Cut Pro X 10.3 and it is flatter and darker than the previous version which was flatter and darker than the version before it. Everything is grey text on a dark grey background. I suspect the next version will be dark grey text on a dark, dark grey background. Pretty soon all interfaces will be solid dark grey and you'll have to guess where the UI components are. Mocha Pro is the worst offender. They are almost a solid color. I stopped using it because I couldn't see the screen components anymore. Absolutely awful!

Web sites have gone the other way. No one uses black text anymore. Everything is light grey text on a white background. To make matters worse, they are using thinner and thinner fonts! It's nearly impossible to read most of the time.

UI designers have gone mad. They have absolutely no sense of following guidelines on how much contrast is needed for aging baby boomers to actually be able to see the screen. This is a huge problem in the industry and many blog posts have been written about it, but it falls on deaf millennial ears. (yes, at the core it's a generation gap issue, millennials can read it fine and don't understand why we are complaining) ;-) 

~jr

james-ollick wrote on 10/29/2016, 7:46 AM

Johnny, you could not have said it better, I agree 100%. At least you would think the programmers would let the user adust the background and text colors. 

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vkmast wrote on 10/29/2016, 8:28 AM

A great post from JR telling it like it is. Thank you.

Tech Diver wrote on 10/29/2016, 10:09 AM

This vaguely reminds me of an old joke about a painting in the Museum of Modern Art of a polar bear eating a marshmallow in a snowstorm.

Peter

set wrote on 10/29/2016, 11:07 AM

 

Apple just release Final Cut Pro X 10.3 and it is flatter and darker than the previous version which was flatter and darker than the version before it. Everything is grey text on a dark grey background. I suspect the next version will be dark grey text on a dark, dark grey background.

Really makes me wondering how the FCPX 10.3 look now in general...

Can you take one screenshot for us where most text appear?

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JJKizak wrote on 10/29/2016, 11:10 AM

I don't like the B & W icons either. Color and shape mean a lot for speed. That ripple edit function really gets to me as I have to continually turn it on and off and there is no blinking warning that it is on causing many undos.

Spectralis wrote on 10/29/2016, 3:48 PM

Is it possible to design a script to change the Vegas UI colours? I can do this in Reaper for example. Not sure if it's possible to edit Vegas at that level.

JohnnyRoy wrote on 10/30/2016, 2:13 PM

Really makes me wondering how the FCPX 10.3 look now in general...

Can you take one screenshot for us where most text appear?

Sure... This is the new FCP X 10.3 interface they just released. I've highlighed some of the UI changes:

This is the older FCP X 10.2 interface which had more color and separation and wasn't as dark:

I mean I like the redesigned elements. They moved Generated Media, Titles, Music, etc to be in the upper left with your project media (just like Vegas Pro) but they removed all of the color. You can barely make out that there and yellow exclamation points in my library letting me know that some media is missing ('cuz I deleted it outside of FCP X) I just think some of the areas like the properties inspector in the upper right are too dark to read easily.

~jr

glovercover wrote on 10/30/2016, 3:18 PM

 

New FinalCut 10.3  very cool!   They removed all unnecessary, and it's great!

set wrote on 10/30/2016, 4:51 PM

and more flat... that's one thing for sure...

But I think the icon still 'brighter' color than the background color...

On the other side, VP14's icon color is 'darker' than the background... But still, our Vegas Pro background interface still a lot brighter than other editors...

Here I also attach the User Interface of Catalyst Browse and DaVinci Resolve, for some comparisons....

Last changed by set on 10/30/2016, 5:06 PM, changed a total of 2 times.

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set wrote on 10/30/2016, 5:16 PM

Someone create a new topic discussing the suggested User Interface:

https://www.vegascreativesoftware.info/us/forum/vegas-pro-15-ui-concept-design--104300/#ca644543

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* I don't work for VEGAS Creative Software Team. I'm just Voluntary Moderator in this forum.

Cosmin_Gurau wrote on 2/3/2017, 12:25 AM

WOW. Can't you all make constructive suggestions instead of completely BASHING the modernization of the VEGAS UI? Come on... And for the record, YES, I think there should be a very well tuned balance between a non-distracting interface and easy-to-tell-apart icons. Let the users customize to some degree these things too. But please, be constructive! Don't just diss stuff like this was some meaningless internet forum. This is a community. Let's respect each other, and try to see the bigger picture.

Yes, contrast is a problem and making a fine tuned modern interface is quite the task. But the solution is not "leave it like it is" or "let's campaign for a Windows 98 look". Why not? WELL, because 6 out of 9 people that I tried to pull towards VEGAS from Premiere-land, or were just starting to learn editing, told me that one of the reasons (not the main reason, of course, but CERTAINLY A REASON) that they chose Premiere was that it "looked good, modern, not ancient", and that their eyes felt better working with it! A few of them even said that the editing interface in VEGAS PRO is "kinda easier, and more intuitive... but man is that thing ugly".

Am I saying that having good, modern looks is Premiere's/Final Cut's only/main advantage? NO. Of course not. Would slapping a GORGEOUS UI on the current version of VEGAS solve its undeserved reputation of "that-kind-of-prosumer-NLE-for-wedding-videographers"? NO. I'm certain it would not. BUT WOULD IT HELP, BOTH WITH IMMEDIATE SALES AND ALSO IN THE GRAND SCHEME OF THINGS? Oh, you bet. YOU BET IT WOULD.

So. Let's try to HELP VEGAS survive, evolve, and become better than ever before! Do you realize the immense opportunity we have now, to be actually listened to by the developing team?! Let's not waste their time with half-baked rant posts, and let's try to give suggestions, in an orderly fashion.

In the thread that set linked to, above my comment, glovercover actually took his time and created a concept for a modern VEGAS interface. Instantly people started BASHING his input, which in all frankness is quite impressive. Another guy took that concept and tweaked it, and came out with what I can honestly call an improvement, or a CONSTRUCTIVE suggestion. In conclusion, please help, don't detract. I know it's hard, but if you guys really care about VEGAS PRO, and I'm sure you do, you'll try to see the bigger picture. Thank you.

Paul-Fierlinger wrote on 2/3/2017, 9:24 AM
A few of them even said that the editing interface in VEGAS PRO is "kinda easier, and more intuitive... but man is that thing ugly".

WOW! A few said the same sentence and what to do with guys who will prefer good looks to utility but ignore such constructivism. I get your point but I think this issue has been rehashed up and down to such an extent already that it has to be pretty clear to the developers what most people here want mostly: easier to define icons. How do you describe an easy to define icon? With colors. But this has all been repeated many times as well. All I can add to this discussion is that I'll wait and see, hopefully soon.

 

Widetrack wrote on 2/5/2017, 12:49 PM

How do I reply to a specific post here without quoting the original post?

vkmast wrote on 2/5/2017, 1:03 PM
Widetrack wrote on 02/05/2017: How do I reply to a specific post ...

I don't think you can?

john_dennis wrote on 2/23/2017, 6:35 PM

@jr

"This is a huge problem in the industry and many blog posts have been written about it, but it falls on deaf millennial ears. (yes, at the core it's a generation gap issue, millennials can read it fine and don't understand why we are complaining) ;-)"

When my son played me this video,

 

I couldn't help but think of this thread. 

Here's what the captions would look like if it was actually done by a millennial:

JohnnyRoy wrote on 2/23/2017, 10:48 PM

@john_dennis

OMG... ROTFLMAO !!! :-D (too funny)

~jr