Comments

Marco. wrote on 7/7/2019, 1:47 AM

Having the RAW codec installed it already does since many versions, except of reading the meta data.

Cleven-Brown wrote on 7/7/2019, 5:48 AM

Black magic raw came out in 2019. Vegas 16 was released in 2018. So its impossible for vegas to support black magic raw from many versions ago. The most current version Vegas 16 pro does not support black raw from my BMPCC 4K. I'm asking again when will Vegas start supporting black magic raw?

D7K wrote on 7/7/2019, 7:38 AM

Dld you ever think of asking Support rather than a user board? In a formal requst?

fr0sty wrote on 7/7/2019, 1:13 PM

The new BM Raw format is designed to give all the quality of Cinema DNG but at file sizes and processing requirements in line with ProRes, or even smaller in some cases (120mbps), with no visual degradation from the RAW original. It's actually a pretty interesting format, shame it is tied to BM's cameras only as it requires in-camera processing to achieve it.

I'd file a support request with the Vegas team, make sure they realize this is the new BM raw format and not Cinema DNG like they've traditionally used, and maybe it will generate some interest for them to download the SDK and add compatibility to Vegas.

Howard-Vigorita wrote on 7/7/2019, 3:30 PM

I don't think it's supported by any open source projects like ffmpeg yet so it's not likely to get supported by anyone that's not willing to do allot of development work for BM. There's a guy over on the BM forums (Hendrik Proosa) trying to use their sdk to develop an open source viewer but he's not done yet. Maybe when he finishes it might jump start something.

Laptop: Dell XPS15-9570; i7-8750h 32gb (integrated Intel UHD-630 & Nvidia GTX-1050Ti)
Road: Intel NUC i7 8809g 32gb (integrated AMD VegaM 4gb graphics and Intel HD630)
Workstation: i9 9900k 32 gb (Sapphire AMD Radeon VII 16gb graphics and integrated Intel UHD630)
Workstation2: e5 1650v4 128 gb (Sapphire Nitro+ RX580 8gb graphics)
Workstation3: i7-980X 24gb (Sapphire RX480 4gb graphics)
currently Vegas 16, testing Vegas 17

Cleven-Brown wrote on 7/7/2019, 3:37 PM

I know that Adobe premier supports it. I was hoping Vegas would have by now.

Musicvid wrote on 7/7/2019, 9:31 PM

You will find out that Adobe licenses more formats than Vegas. That's one reason it costs so much over time.

JN_ wrote on 9/13/2019, 6:14 PM

Added to PP and Avid ... https://www.redsharknews.com/production/item/6637-blackmagic-expands-braw-to-premiere-pro-and-avid,-debuts-atem-mini-and-more

 

Desktop and Laptop basic specs ...

Both run Win 10, has latest updates ...

Running latest ver. of Vegas Pro with latest updates.

VP13 B453 also.

Vegaseur and Pluraleyes installed on both ...

Quicktime 7.79.80.95

PC ...

i9 9900K, Intel Graphics 630. Nov 2018.

Mem. 32gb DDR4

Graphics card .. Nvidia Rtx 2080 Ti

Nvidia Graphics driver .. latest Studio driver.

Latest Intel Graphics driver

 

Laptop ... (Acer Predator G9-793-77AC)

CPU .. i7-6700HQ Skylake-H

Memory ..16GB DDR4 

Graphics card .. Nvidia GTX 1070, latest Studio driver.

Wolfgang S. wrote on 9/14/2019, 1:51 AM

And to Edius 9.5.

JN_ wrote on 9/15/2019, 2:58 AM

@Wolfgang S. Yes, in this 2nd. link they mention... FCPX, Avid Media Composer, Grass Valley’s Edius, and now Adobe Premiere Pro.  https://www.redsharknews.com/production/item/6642-adobe-to-add-prores-raw-support

Last changed by JN_ on 9/15/2019, 3:00 AM, changed a total of 1 times.

 

Desktop and Laptop basic specs ...

Both run Win 10, has latest updates ...

Running latest ver. of Vegas Pro with latest updates.

VP13 B453 also.

Vegaseur and Pluraleyes installed on both ...

Quicktime 7.79.80.95

PC ...

i9 9900K, Intel Graphics 630. Nov 2018.

Mem. 32gb DDR4

Graphics card .. Nvidia Rtx 2080 Ti

Nvidia Graphics driver .. latest Studio driver.

Latest Intel Graphics driver

 

Laptop ... (Acer Predator G9-793-77AC)

CPU .. i7-6700HQ Skylake-H

Memory ..16GB DDR4 

Graphics card .. Nvidia GTX 1070, latest Studio driver.

Cleven-Brown wrote on 9/15/2019, 5:54 AM

Now vegas 17 has been released. Now black magic raw 1.5 has released. Now multiple other NLEs support the raw codec except Magix's Vegas. When vegas was owned by sony it supported every new codec. Under Magix vegas has become stagnant with its development. This is sad. I have officially switch to davinci resolve. Magix has lost a customer after using Vegas for 15 years.

fr0sty wrote on 9/16/2019, 1:47 PM

You quit using Vegas after 15 years because Blackmagic supported a format they invented faster than Vegas did? Because a handful of other NLEs just got support for it a week ago? Vegas still supports far more input and output formats than Resolve does.

Kinvermark wrote on 9/16/2019, 2:11 PM

Given that BM raw is a camera format, not an intermediate, the market for Magix would = Vegas Pro users with Blackmagic cameras (or clients with such) who choose to use the BM raw codec for their project. Is that a big number of people?

Not trying to undermine the feature request, but I do think Vegas needs to carefully develop / maintain a "personality" of it's own rather than being a me-too competing against bigger players.

Wolfgang S. wrote on 9/16/2019, 2:52 PM

Yes that tends to become a bigger and bigger number of people, given the general increasing trend to raw, the decreasing prices for cameras and the freedom to grade that footage to whatever you want in the post.

I think that there will come also some kind of raw support in Vegas in the future. The new grading tools will make most sense with raw for sure. Off course one can also shoot to ProRes (not raw) in the meantime.

And please do not forget that the support for BRAW/Prores raw in Adobe and Avid was announced some days ago only. And also Edius 9.5 was launched 2 days ago only - and does not support BRAW from the Pocket 6K in the initial version but only with some future update. And the support for ProRes RAW exists longer, but the playback performance is really weak in Edius at the moment.

fr0sty wrote on 9/16/2019, 4:37 PM

Magix is aware of everyone's concerns and has RAW support on the roadmap. If I had to guess, just like Wolfgang mentioned with Edius' bad performance with RAW playback, perhaps the Magix team feels the need to finish up a few performance improvements in Vegas before they begin trying to add support for such a resource-intensive format.

Cleven-Brown wrote on 9/16/2019, 4:50 PM

You quit using Vegas after 15 years because Blackmagic supported a format they invented faster than Vegas did? Because a handful of other NLEs just got support for it a week ago? Vegas still supports far more input and output formats than Resolve does.

You quit using Vegas after 15 years because Blackmagic supported a format they invented faster than Vegas did? Because a handful of other NLEs just got support for it a week ago? Vegas still supports far more input and output formats than Resolve does.

I had to switch. I own to black magic cameras and I enjoy the latitude of shooting in braw. So yes after 15 years of using Vegas I made the switch to davinci.

bob-h wrote on 9/17/2019, 12:49 AM

perhaps the Magix team feels the need to finish up a few performance improvements in Vegas before they begin trying to add support for such a resource-intensive format.

In Resolve braw 4K uses  20%cpu on timeline playback on an old 3.4ghz 4core cpu. compare that to Prores that uses 50%. Even with braw gpu decoding disabled it uses less than 40%. braw is supposed require 1/2 the processing requirments of prores (from memory).

There is no better codec in the world today *(citation needed) and given that the 4k camera is just $1300 it has definite consumer market appeal & part of the appeal is using a 4k codec with a bandwidth as low as 37MB/s and can be easily edited without proxies. With vegas at the moment you either record in the vastly inferior prores422 or you need to create an intermediate removing the advantages of the worlds best codec*(citation needed)

Nick Hope wrote on 9/17/2019, 2:57 AM
  1. The cost may be an issue. Depends if Blackmagic want to sell more cameras or make more money licensing codecs.
  2. MAGIX may need time to negotiate a pay-only-when-used license like some of the other codecs that require additional activation. Reportedly this type of license model was a major factor in VEGAS remaining a viable product after the switch from Sony.
  3. Depending on #1 & #2, and the demand, perhaps MAGIX may try to reverse-engineer an unlicensed codec, like they did with ProRes. That would also take time.
  4. In the grand scheme of things, BRAW support must currently be lower priority than improving support, performance and stability for more mainstream codecs.

(👆1-3 = all guesswork)

...Under Magix vegas has become stagnant with its development...

That may have been somewhat true at first (e.g. VP14/15), when not much was added. Previously Sony development had certainly stagnated in their later versions. But now (VP17) development is strong and many new features are being added.

JN_ wrote on 9/17/2019, 3:28 AM

@Nick Hope

Well, I recollect that BM were making it freely available to any camera manufacturers that wanted to implement it in their cameras going forward, so then charging for the codec, not sure about that.

Your item 4 .. The lack of proper native support for say the 5D mk. iv .mov codec still isn’t there, that codec, not mainstream I do accept. So the idea of Magix beavering away on other codecs doesn’t wash, see link below. If user interest, amount of posting, was one indicator of whether a codec got some love then the mjpeg .mov issue (40 clip limit) would have already been addressed, there was a massive posting on that issue.

Its intrinsically lack of native quicktime 64 bit support in Magix.

It was first raised on 1st-October-2016.

https://www.vegascreativesoftware.info/us/forum/new-canon-5d-mark-iv-camera-files-limit-on-how-many-will-open--103932/?page=1

 

Last changed by JN_ on 9/17/2019, 3:38 AM, changed a total of 3 times.

 

Desktop and Laptop basic specs ...

Both run Win 10, has latest updates ...

Running latest ver. of Vegas Pro with latest updates.

VP13 B453 also.

Vegaseur and Pluraleyes installed on both ...

Quicktime 7.79.80.95

PC ...

i9 9900K, Intel Graphics 630. Nov 2018.

Mem. 32gb DDR4

Graphics card .. Nvidia Rtx 2080 Ti

Nvidia Graphics driver .. latest Studio driver.

Latest Intel Graphics driver

 

Laptop ... (Acer Predator G9-793-77AC)

CPU .. i7-6700HQ Skylake-H

Memory ..16GB DDR4 

Graphics card .. Nvidia GTX 1070, latest Studio driver.

bob-h wrote on 9/17/2019, 5:29 AM

@Nick Hope

Well, I recollect that BM were making it freely available to any camera manufacturers that wanted to implement it in their cameras going forward, so then charging for the codec, not sure about that.

This is BM guy talking about braw. So 'Licence Free' doesn't actually mean free, NLE's can still be charged to use it in a licence free model?

Wolfgang S. wrote on 9/17/2019, 7:59 AM

Today we see two competing new raw Systems: ProRes RAW and BRAW. The owner of both companies have been co-workers Long time ago, and today they still have a great and fantastic relationship. At the end of the day that has something to do how good they will work together.

As far as I know BRAW can be adopted free of Charge. For ProRes RAW a license costs seesm to be required. So BRAW should have an Advantage for both Magix and also the Vegas users.

I would like to see both raws supported in Vegas. However, maybe BRAW is the better choice given the relative  low priced camera systems like the Pocket 4K/6K.

Nick Hope wrote on 9/17/2019, 8:25 AM

Thanks. From the bob-h's video and this page, it certainly looks like the codec is free to implement in NLEs. Should have done some research before my previous comment.

fr0sty wrote on 9/17/2019, 8:52 AM

"I would like to see both raws supported in Vegas. However, maybe BRAW is the better choice given the relative  low priced camera systems like the Pocket 4K/6K."

BRAW requires hardware at the camera level to work, which is why you'll only ever see it in BM's cameras (which aren't usually the best choice), nobody else is going to spend money on hardware to use someone else's codec that only works in certain NLE's... and BRAW isn't actually RAW at all, users have found it compresses into YUV and creates artifacts when doing things like green screen as a result. I can't speak for prores RAW, I haven't dug into its technical side yet.

Cleven-Brown wrote on 9/17/2019, 4:23 PM

At the introduction ok the BMPCC 4K last BRAW was Inevitable. Not that the camera and the codec is here magix needs to remedy the lack of support for one of the most popular cameras on the planet. 12bit 4k raw for $1295 USD. No vender can keep them on the shelf. I am a power editor. I have 5 to 6 paid projects per month. I can't financially wait for magix to get their act together. I'd go out of business. I'd like to continue to use Vegas but due to the inability to edit braw on vegas 17 I have to seek other options. And besides Davinci 16.1 is absolutely free.