Boycott Vegas 12 unless Vegas 11 gets stable!


Grazie wrote on 1/27/2012, 10:41 AM

If someone happily running Vegas 10 or prior on their XP Pro computer wanted to "try before they bought" they could not. They had to either upgrade to Windows 7 or go out and buy a whole new computer.I did almost the very same, except my PC was failing on 2gb RAM, and the option of OFX and acceleration was truly alluring.

I have a lot of sympathy for those who are truly upset about Vegas 11 because in fact many did go out and buy a brand new computer just to try to get Vegas 11 to work and it still doesn't work well. I had to buy one, as mine was creaking.

They have every right to be upset. Really upset.Yes they do. As I am. I'm still having issues with the latest, 521.

I really want VP11 to work. Apart from anything else I've had to sit through the embarrassment of having a client peer over my shoulder wandering I was doing with switching from one platform to another to do the simplest of tasks. As soon as I could render out to MXF, and open in VP10e - for me that's as stable as I'm getting at present - I carry on.



Jay Gladwell wrote on 1/27/2012, 10:52 AM

John, I was experiencing the same thing last February that you are dealing with now. Once I got that project out the door, I went (most begrudgingly) to Premiere Pro. I've been happily editing ever since then (and I didn't have to buy a video card that cost as much as a small car!).

Unfortunately, I don't have the luxury of waiting around for SCS to get their act together.

johnmeyer wrote on 1/27/2012, 1:34 PM
John, I was experiencing the same thing last February that you are dealing with now. Once I got that project out the door, I went (most begrudgingly) to Premiere Pro. I've been happily editing ever since then (and I didn't have to buy a video card that cost as much as a small car!).I have really been resisting that step. Part of my desire to stick it out a little longer is that I rely so much on the Vegas scripting to speed my workflow. Also, I'm getting a little creeky at my "advanced" age, and learning new stuff isn't as much fun as it used to be. Finally, the older versions of Vegas are still useful for almost everything I do.

I resisted, for as long as I could, purchasing a CMOS AVCHD camera (both of those things introduce problems that I didn't want), but there really isn't much choice at the upper end of the consumer lines (I needed a smaller camera I could carry in a pocket).

It is this transition to using AVCHD that tempted me to use Vegas 10, which I've had installed for a long time, but was afraid (rightfully so, as it turns out) to use because of all the negative reports, almost all of which turn out to be true.

Fortunately, however, I think I can still enjoy these wonderful older versions (specifically Vegas 8.0c and 7.0d) and yet still edit my newer AVCHD projects. I will just have to take the extra time (and hard drive space) to convert to Cineform intermediates, and then edit with those. Compared to all the other alternatives at this point, that is the smallest price to pay that I can think of.

MUTTLEY wrote on 1/27/2012, 1:43 PM
Bob, totally understand.

johnmeyer,: "I am really, really disgusted with the unhelpful Vegas fanboy comments being made here."

lol, I'll go ahead and pretentiously assume that at least in part that that comment was leveled at me, not that I mind really, I've always been proud to use Vegas and that hasn't changed =)

Now with that said I'm not sure I necessarily qualify for the title (though I thank you for the nod if it was) as I have been nothing but forthright about my own personal issues, have conceded that there are legitimate known bugs, and have said repeatedly in this and other threads that "This is not to say that it's never a Vegas issue." (exact wordage may vary).

When you say "These problems are not just issues with newbies or people who lack the expertise to be using these products, or people who are doing things that the product was never intended to do." you seem to be taking that a bit personal. Are you saying that only experts read these forums and that every reply should be tailored as such? Even if that were the case I consider myself to be fairly savvy and have still run into issues that were a bugger to track down and often were far from the obvious solutions. It seems that your offended by the the mere proposition that a program crashing or having issues is not always because there's a problem with the program. I can only speak to my own experience, if you found that unhelpful that's fine, perhaps someone else will.

Please know that I am as invested in Vegas as you or anyone else, perhaps even more so as I have zero desire to jump ship. This is how I make my living and this is my chosen program to use. I am completely empathic to those who are having issues and know first hand how frustrating it can get. I've shared many of those problems and validated their existence quite often here on the forums, most recently with the replace footage bug. As much as I love Vegas I always try to be pragmatic. I don't think it serves anyone to simply be a flat out "fanboy" and deny legitimate problems but I think it's equally as unproductive if not detrimental to just bash for the sake of bashing.

At present for me V11 64bit is working without issue with both short and long form projects. It was recently mentioned just yesterday in another thread that the replace footage bug has been solved in V11 which I was especially glad to hear. Before reading that confirmation I was literally on pins and needles every time I opened a project just waiting for it to rear its ugly head.

- Ray
Underground Planet
johnmeyer wrote on 1/27/2012, 2:00 PM
I'll go ahead and pretentiously assume that at least in part that that comment was leveled at meActually, no, it wasn't at all.

As for my increasingly negative comments, you can click on my name and see how many comments I've made in this forum, and over what period of time. 99% of them have been just trying to help other people, and have not been made just to complain.
jabloomf1230 wrote on 1/27/2012, 2:49 PM
As a long time Cineform user, I do agree that Vegas Pro 11 and Cineform are presently not the most perfect companions. But then, you have to partition out how much of that is SCS's "fault" and how much is Cineform's. SCS and Cineform seem to work very closely at ironing out bugs, probably as fast as any two companies do.

At one time, the CFHD codec was truly a "gift" that allowed RT editing without doing an "end-run" with proxy files. But, I really wonder how many people here are really gaining much these days by using an intermediate codec such as CFHD? Unless you are either on a slow PC or making multiple generations of the files on your timeline, you are almost better off working with AVCHD or whatever original file format that your camera shoots.

That's not intended to be a knock on Cineform, only just a suggestion to those who have projects that need to be done in the near term and are waiting for a solution.
MUTTLEY wrote on 1/27/2012, 3:37 PM

I stand corrected John.

And it appears as though I also need to clarify that my frustration lies in the more, what I consider, as unreasonably hostile and accusatory posts and threads by some that have permeated these forums here lately. It's especially disconcerting to me when from both my experience and as someone who has read these forums on a near daily basis for years, some posters are putting 100% of the blame on Sony/Vegas when the issues they are reporting may or may not even be a Vegas issue. There are obvious known bugs that the consensus has established, if those were the only ones being discussed I wouldn't have a problem (though I would still take issue some of the more lambastic mob mentality comments). But I don't think you'll disagree with your background and having paid as much attention to this current trend as I have, that there are a slew of posts that are piling on problem after problem and unfairly, in my opinion, puffing their chests about things that are completely unsubstantiated.

And John, you don't have to point out that you are not always negative or more inclined to help than complain, I've been around more than a week. I'm confidant that if I were to go back and look at times when I posted my own issues that I'd find more than one post by you trying to help me =)

- Ray
Underground Planet
VidMus wrote on 1/27/2012, 4:03 PM
I noticed that MUTTLEY is using Windows Vista 64 bit and not having any problems. I installed Windows Vista 64 bit and then upgraded to Windows 7 64 bit and have occasional problems.

I have software that will not install on a Windows 7 64 bit system IF Windows 7 was installed only, as in not upgraded. But because I upgraded from Vista to Windows 7 I can install those software’s. I cannot remember the details but there are some underlying code(s) (16 bit code?) in Vista that is not in Windows 7 64 bit that cause this.

Could it possibly be that the missing underlying code(s) is/are causing the Vegas issues? Are parts of Vegas expecting that missing underlying code(s) that is not there and is thus at least one of the causes of the crashes?

It has been said that some have gone out and bought a new system and are having these problems. It only makes sense that these new systems are NOT upgraded from Vista and thus will not have the underlying code(s). But an earlier system that came with Vista and then upgraded to Windows 7 would.

Maybe it would help by knowing who all had Windows Vista and then upgraded to Windows 7.

This is just a suggestion for something that might help.

Steve Mann wrote on 1/27/2012, 11:08 PM
"When you evaluate a "demo" program, which is usually crippled or time-constrained, you don't usually put two hours and ten track of video on the timeline, with multiple fX. Also, you may not hit on the combination of things that causes it to break."

There are no restrictions or feature limitations in the Vegas Demo (with one exception, the MP3 encoder is missing from the demo) - it just expires in 30-days.
MUTTLEY wrote on 1/27/2012, 11:52 PM

Trust me VidMus, I WISH I knew why V11 64 is working so well for me and apparently not for some. I swear to God I would send everyone who's having problems some magic fairy dust if I had it! You did inspire me to go update my System Information here though, still had Vista listed and my old video card, now have a EVGA GeForce GTX580. Only other maybe worth a mention change I've made to my system was upgraded the C: drive to a 150 gig Intel solid state drive.

- Ray
Underground Planet
Grazie wrote on 1/28/2012, 1:54 AM
Ray, thanks for updating your specs. In this way we can go forward comparing apples with apples. Getting this nailed down, with all the changes in VP11, helps in reducing the search for stability being this continual moving target.

The more we can go towards unearthing some stability could point towards solutions for others too.

While SCS wrangle the stability, keeping the lines of communication open here on the Forum, is what we can do. In updating your specs you may very well be helping others to identify what it is that's needing to be done.

Many thanks


farss wrote on 1/28/2012, 2:51 AM
I fear trying to get to the bottom of why some are having nothing but joy and others nothing but grief is going to be very difficult.

Spot said he found "some" plugins caused problems.
Several are reporting that the latest video drivers solved their issues.
On DvInfo I found a Vegas user who swore video drivers made no difference. He found solace in not installing the 32bit and the 64bit version.

That alone is an aweful lot of permutations to consider, it could be any in concert or various combinations. I'm left with only a couple of rather radical thoughts:

1) Someone come up with something like The LarsHD Challenge. Which by the way V11 seems to cope with just fine, go figure.

2) Someone or better yet lots of people copy entire projects and assets onto a HDD and ship it off to SCS.

3) SCS staff start getting on planes.

4) SCS designate Troubleshooters that can visit people with issues and try to diagnose what is going on. Obvioulsy these people will need skills and more tools than we currently have.

Grazie wrote on 1/28/2012, 3:15 AM
I fear trying to get to the bottom of why some are having nothing but joy and others nothing but grief is going to be very difficult.

Me too. However, you saying this will hopefully keep the clock ticking over the SCS Engineers to come up with fixes

I really do like your idea of us sending SCS buckets of output for them to sift through.

Strangely enough, I DO see value in your 3] and 4]. And no, I don't expect to have them knocking on my door in London - LOL!! But there IS distance IT support. I've had this with my PC builders who are located some 200 miles away.

Wouldn't THAT be possible? They could rummage about in my PC to ascertain convergence of issues against their working models.

Let's keep the ideas coming.

farss wrote on 1/28/2012, 5:14 AM
"But there IS distance IT support. I've had this with my PC builders who are located some 200 miles away."

Indeed and I use it a lot with my clients, some of whom are 6,000KM away.
There's a range of solutions available and it gets around the "we can't reproduce the problem' problem. Nothing like seeing what the user is doing, something as subtle as the order in which they od things can be the key. Lets face it, it's no simple task to exactly specify all the steps in the exact sequence to explain how you got to a crash and type that into a form that uses a window the size of a postage stamp..

paul_w wrote on 1/28/2012, 5:56 AM
Im getting into the habbit of demonstrating issues in simple videos. In the hope it helps shows something i cant see. Along with detailed system spec including drivers versions, i dont know what else anyone could do.

Grazie wrote on 1/28/2012, 6:26 AM
Weeeeell, maybe we should all start feeding issues, using some capture feature, to SCS?


Steve Mann wrote on 1/28/2012, 10:08 AM
"2) Someone or better yet lots of people copy entire projects and assets onto a HDD and ship it off to SCS."

And when SCS still can't reproduce the problem, would you finally admit the problem might be your PC?

If memory serves me, I think that Sonic Foundry did this. But the experience was that they could only rarely reproduce the problem the user was experiencing. If they can't reproduce the problem, then how in the world are they going to "fix" it?

I would be willing to do this for anyone with problems they are blaming SCS for. Ship me a HDD with the problem project on it and the veg file, and I'll run it on one of my Pro-11 stations. If I get the same issue on a known good installation, then I will agree it's a Vegas bug. If I don't, then you need to look at your PC for the fix.

Expecting SCS Tech Support to fix your PC is just not reasonable. That is not their job.
VidMus wrote on 1/28/2012, 10:35 AM
"On DvInfo I found a Vegas user who swore video drivers made no difference. He found solace in not installing the 32bit and the 64bit version."

I only have the 64 bit version installed on version 11, both 32 bit and 64 bit on the previous versions. Maybe that is why I get occasional crashes?

When my mind wakes up (LOL) I also need to update my system specs. I wish there was an easier way to do this. Would be nice if there was a utility from SCS that did an auto system scan that would then upload the specs and there they are. One could set it to be run manually if desired.

As for the boycott, Vegas is not even a blip on Sony's radar. Their top video people don't even use it, they include Adobe Premiere Elements with the computers they sell and they are only looking at how much money they can get from Vegas.

A boycott simply means less money and then they will say it does not benefit us and they will discontinue it.

I previously used an NLE called MSP8. There were a lot of issues with it. Users kept saying how they would not upgrade until the issues were fixed. Instead of getting the fixes the NLE was discontinued. No more updates, upgrades and support. End of the road! That is all a boycott will achieve!

We and SCS must work together as a team to solve the issues. There is obviously no one size fixes all solution. There is no magic update that will make Vegas perfect on all systems out there! Not going to happen, not realistic!

Problems are being caused by various things such as marginal hardware, hardware that is not capable of handling what the user’s wants and/or various software issues such as drivers, conflicts and versions. And yes, there are some bugs in Vegas itself! But to assume that ALL problems are being caused by bugs in Vegas is just plain wrong!!!

Each situation is unique and requires unique troubleshooting!

There are no easy answers so stop looking for them! A boycott is the worst of all the answers!!!

So let’s work positively together and solve the issues!
paul_w wrote on 1/28/2012, 10:45 AM
"So let’s work positively together and solve the issues!"..

SCS, did you read that??? THATS YOU TOO...

MUTTLEY wrote on 1/28/2012, 12:28 PM
Regarding who has which versions on their system currently have Vegas Pro 11 (Build 521) 64-bit and Vegas Pro Version 10.0e (Build 738) 64-bit.

If I could make one small request Grazie, perhaps you might start a new thread called something like "The Troubleshooting/System Info Thread" or something like that where we might start collecting data? I'll repost my info over there if ya do. Think it would be a much cleaner place to start and easier to find and not have to scroll down for 5 mins to get to the end! =)

Maybe start the thread with what info seems germane to this. I would think that would be the basics that we post as well as what versions of Vegas we have installed, plug-ins that we have installed, and the last section be "Specific problems you are having:"

So something like:

Windows Version: Windows Version:7 64-bit
RAM: RAM:8.00 GB
Processor Speed: Processor:Intel Core 2 Extreme X9650
Video Card: EVGA: GeForce GTX580
Sound Card:
Video Capture:
CD Burner: Sony
DVD Burner:Sony
Camera: Sony PMW-F3K

Sony Vegas Version(s) Installed on System: Vegas Pro 11 (Build 521) 64-bit
Vegas Pro Version 10.0e (Build 738) 64-bit

Plug Ins Installed: Magic Bullet Looks 2.0 (2.04), proDad Mercalli 2.0
Usual file type you edit: Sony PMW-F3 MP4 files
Have you installed 3rd Party Codex? Quicktime

Specific problems while editing: None

I think this could be rather insightful if it stays on topic.

- Ray
Underground Planet
vkmast wrote on 1/28/2012, 12:40 PM
A good suggestion.
In another thread (Sony levels..)
ForumAdmin states also this

For any issues you experience in VP11 (and going forward), your video card model and driver information is critical. Please be sure to include this with any reports of issues that may be GPU-related.
Geoff_Wood wrote on 1/28/2012, 12:51 PM
Given the ongoing problems and inevitable ever-increasing complexity, it might be worth them embedding a compact capture function into the app. Even a hidden one that is only invoked with directions by tech support.

The errors logs don't seem to help much, presumably.

Geoff_Wood wrote on 1/28/2012, 12:54 PM
So if everything else works just fine, where does one go from there ?

Coul be that certain cominations of otherwise valid drivers or win settings that V can't cope with is a common cause.....

Geoff_Wood wrote on 1/28/2012, 12:59 PM
I'm sure lots goes on behind the scenes that for practical (and maybe legal) reasons would be unwise to 'publish' in a forum. Don't want the engineers forever tied up in squabbles over pedantics.

An occasional (more) regular reassurance on specific issues would help though.