Will the subscription model version (365) have a different name/file structure? I was thinking about possible compatibility issues with older plugins with their installers not recognizing 365? Like the issues I had with VASST etc...

Finally, a subscription model that makes 100% sense!

I have the suite version of Vegas Pro 15 that I am currently not using because it does not like my video card while Vegas pro 14 work’s perfectly with it. I can contact them and get the help I need but I am still trying to get caught-up and get a number of other issues out of the way first.

LOL!!! Once I finally get caught-up, I will have another major project to work on. I expect that I will be ready to dive into some problem solving around June of this year. Meanwhile, I will keep tabs on the updates and see if they solve my issues before then.

They are making serious efforts to make Vegas Pro the best it can be! It all takes time to do this.

The number one thing I am so sick and tired of here as well as the rest of the internet is the negative postings from so many people. Many of them are quite hateful and unnecessary.

If we could all work positively together as a team and be patient, then we will be much more likely to get things the way we really want.

If I were just starting out and with my limited income, I would greatly welcome this new subscription model. It would give me a way to afford Vegas Pro while learning it. Over a period of time, I could save-up and get the non-subscription version and then put the subscription money in the bank.

What perfectly meets one person's needs might not meet another person's needs at all. But at least there is a variety of ways one can pay for Vegas Pro that can meet their needs.

So, if you feel the need to leave a negative comment, walk away for a while, calm down and leave a positive post that is helpful instead. I had to learn to do this!!!

Thanks much Magix for all of your efforts!

Let me chip in. A car sales company has sold cars for many years. Now he introduces new alteratives to car purchase so that customers in different situations can choose something that suits them: Leasing and rent. So now you can either 1. buy a new car from him. 2. Lease a car from him. 3. Rent a car for a shorter period. or 4. Just keep your old car.

Now some long time customers say: "I don't like leasing or renting. Leasing and renting sucks. Why does he do that?! That option should not be there, just traditional purchasing. Now I don't like the car dealer anymore. And I will not buy a car from him either, even though the cars are good. The car dealer next door still only sells cars, not rents or leases, so I will go there."

In my opinion the new subscription option is excellent. I will keep my perpetual VP15 license and upgrade to 16 when it comes, because I work professionally with it and need it every day or at least a few days a week. But at times I need to expand and call in an extra editor to work on projects for a month or two. Then I can subscribe to Vegas 365 for that period only and the editor will have the latest tools. I myself will always continue with my own perpetual one. Next year in high season I call in the extra editor for another two or three months of work and I activate Vegas 365 for him. Great!

Or if I will not need the extra editor again, or will not need any new version of Vegas, I just keep the one I have for free.

In other words, it's great to have both alternatives. Nothing negative about that. Good thinking Vegas team!

Martin

+1, Cornico.and the others quoted.

One proviso though ,,, just as long as Monopardox's prediction isn't realised ...

I'll predict higher renewal prices to drive people onto subscription

There is nothing disingenuous about that marketing statement. A customer makes a project in VP 365, it's hers. If she stops subscribing, it's still hers. Even if she never subscribes again, it's still hers. But if a year later she decides she needs to edit that project again, it's still hers, so she can open it in VP 365 or the perpetual version that's current at that time or matches the 365 version it was created in. How on earth do you manage to turn that into a disingenuous, sneaky, or dishonest thing?

I get it; you don't like subscription. Don't subscribe. Simple equation. If we were holding your dog hostage and promised only to release him if you subscribe, that's ransom. Subscription is just another option. Use it or don't, whichever works for you.

I have no wish to antagonise anyone, yourself included, I have a high regard for what you do and the rest of the developers, but, Marketing is Marketing.

Its still not clear, a little transparency would help, on whether or not the 365 software, when subscription is stopped will STILL load the projects that it previously created. If not (A) then as I have already said the projects, although in possesion of the user, are useless unless he/she re-subscribes.

(B) Or is it the case that any projects created with 365 can be loaded and edited with Vegas Pro, say 15 and or the 365 software version that created those projects, although its subscription has stopped?

Its either A or B.

“How on earth do you manage to turn that into a disingenuous, sneaky, or dishonest thing?”

Through lack of clarity on the issue I'm trying to get an answer to, because it hasn’t been made clear.

PS

You don’t get it actually, please don’t jump to conclusions. My preference would be perpetual, but ultimately i’ll select what is the best option for me. If in the future that was subscription for various really good/essential reasons I might indeed choose subscription, that’s definitely not the case now.

Ok Cornico, i’m always in admiration of people that speak multiple languages, could never do so myself, did try, fail, computers not included😅, even that quite limited.

I really wish though that Magix would just clarify it. If it is (A) then I guess its typical of marketing not wishing to frighten the horses.

If it is (A) then my previous posts stand.

It's not 100% clear to me either.

I assumed that 365 stops working completely when your subscription expires (or when it next phones home after your subscription expires). As far as I know, that would be the typical behaviour of subscription-model software.

However, because of JN_'s posts, I'm wondering if it might continue to work but only to open existing projects.

VEGAS 365 is simply the name of a new bundle with but with a subscription model. The software you install with that subscription has exactly the same VEGAS core application as you would get with the perpetual license. The subscription entitles you to any updates to the current version of VEGAS during the duration of the subscription. If you get the subscription right now for one year, you will get VEGAS 15 with it, and any updates to VEGAS 15 come for free. If VEGAS 16 is released during the period you have that subscription, you get VEGAS 16 automatically and can use that for the duration of you subscription. If you develop a project using VEGAS 15 and you have a VEGAS 365 subscription, you can open it with any VEGAS 15 perpetual license as well. It is the same software and the projects generated by it are the same. The 365 add-ons may be different, just as they are different with VEGAS Pro Edit, VEGAS Pro and VEGAS Pro Suite, but the main application software is the same.

Through lack of clarity on the issue I'm trying to get an answer to, because it hasn’t been made clear.

Maybe you could better write: "because it hasn’t been made clear TO ME", because for me it is clear enough (although english is not and will never be my native language 😉).

I understand that it is option A and that stays untill you subscribe again for 3 month's or a year.
Marketing is MARKETING 😁

Cornico, if it's all clear to you, please let us know if it's A) or B).

It is A.

If your subscription runs out and you don't renew, you no longer have access to the software. That is what a subscription is. You do still own the project file--forever. If you want to later open that project file, then it's true, you must either own a perpetual license that is the same or later version than the version it was created on, or you must subscribe again to gain access to the software.

There is nothing disingenuous about the hated marketing. It is 100% true and was not somehow crafted to confuse anyone. I'm sorry it wasn't clear, but I hope it is now.

To reiterate what Derek said: Functionally, VEGAS 365 and the perpetual options are identical--it's the same installer. The only differences are in the add-on software and the purchase/subscription option. Create it in a perpetual license, open it in a subscription license. Or go the other way. It's the exact same software.

Ok, thanks for the clarification, now we all know.

So somehow, the perpetual software knows that the subscription created project can be loaded or not based on the current subscription status, and version number. The subscription software definitely knows this.

The only bonus I see in all of this over similar ransomware is that if you have a perpetual licence with the same version number or later then, without resubscribing you can load and edit the old project with the perpetual software.

What the P.O. says above was actually in early press here (quoted earlier in this thread)

"The project files subscription model users end up with are the same project files they’d end up with using a perpetual license. Users don’t lose anything just because they stop their subscription. Anyone with a perpetual license will be able to pick up those project files at any time without issue. Users can always open those project files up, whether they have a subscription or perpetual license."

Thank you for clarifying further.

...So somehow, the perpetual software knows that the subscription created project can be loaded or not based on the current subscription status. The subscription software definitely knows this.

As I understand it, the projects themselves are all the same, whether they were created in 365 or a perpetual version. So the perpetual software doesn't need to know anything about subscription at all.

As I understand it, the projects themselves are all the same, whether they were created in 365 or a perpetual version. So the perpetual software doesn't need to know anything about subscription at all.

Exactly.

Thanks Nick, but, the perpetual software DOES need to know and keep track of the version number, earlier versioned perpetual software can’t load later versioned subscription projects.

I think my reason, if you followed my posts and others here is self evident.

But just in case it’s not, here is my main reason for raising these issues. 1) To tease out more clearly the marketing gloss and add detail that was lacking, Gary, Nick, VKmast etc have added to this.

2) To clarify under exactly what circumstances users would be left with a subscription project on their hard disc that is nothing more than a series of 1’s and 0’s but of no other value because its unable to be loaded and edited.

I had hoped that option (B) mentioned earlier might be a runner, but it was not to be.

For me, 2) above is crucial, no point in living in La La land because you didn’t fully understand the details.

Example, maybe you've nested a subscription project in a perpetual project, or visa versa, really important to know fully whats what.

Everyone is different and you appear to have been right in reading the tea leaves as to the way it works, more luck to you.

Me, I like the details, don’t like last minute surprises. ....... but I thought marketing said that, no sorry, you thought, inferred that they said that, but what they really meant was ... etc etc.

I was also confused by your question, as I think Nick was. To be clear (I hope):

Yes, if you make a project in VEGAS Pro 15 365 and then you stop your subscription, and then try to open that project in a perpetual license version of VEGAS Pro, then that perpetual version will have to be version 15 or greater. But Cornico's point is also valid: that is no different than if you'd have created the project in a perpetual version to begin with.

The general rule is (and has always been) that projects cannot be opened by versions of VEGAS that are older than the version the project was created in (e.g., VP 14 cannot open a VP 15 project). Whether your version is subscription or perpetual has no bearing on this issue whatsoever. After all, again, it is the exact same application whether you acquired it through subscription or a perpetual license.

marc s comment:

...Gary basically promised in an online interview that we would be seeing AMD acceleration support for editing in future Vegas 15 updates.  I'm starting to doubt this think that if it ever manifests it will be in Vegas 16 / 365 or later.

gary-rebholz response: 

It's Forum and Interview Management 101 not to say whatever I must have said that inspired the above quote. That's my mistake--I know better. We are working on AMD support, honest. If it was easy, it would be done already. My hope is still to get it into a free VP 15 update.

The quote I am referring to:

"Beyond the UI innovations, hardware acceleration has been taken very seriously and will get even better in the near future. The company started with a focus on rendering speed, but there are also improvements on the decode side as well. Users who have modern nVIDIA cards or Intel QSV technology will see the most acceleration benefits in the initial release. Future updates will help AMD card owners." —Gary Rebholz interview in Pro Video Coalition about Vegas 15.

I think the details offered by Gary are very straight forward and easy to understand. The only caveat to this arrangement of using the subscription vs. perpetual licenses is that if while using the subscription model you employ one of the included plug ins (Plugins: NewBlueFX Filters Ultimate, HitFilm Movie Essentials, VEGAS DVD architect, Ozone Elements 8 by iZotope), it seems to me that it would be impossible to use these projects either in your 'perpetual' licensed version or a later subscription version (16+) if you do not own the above plug ins. Is this correct?

Gary basically promised in an online interview that we would be seeing AMD acceleration support for editing in future Vegas 15 updates.  I'm starting to doubt this think that if it ever manifests it will be in Vegas 16 / 365 or later.

Me and my big mouth...

For all of those who consistently complain because we won't share future plans with you, that right there is your answer. I try to be very careful about what I say regarding future plans, not because I'm trying to squeeze more money out of you, but because if that statement proves to not be true due to whatever problem we might run into, we are accused of dishonesty. I'm not saying that you, marc-s, are accusing us of dishonesty in this case, but you have clearly set up your expectation to feel harmed if we can't overcome the technical hurdles we are currently facing in our AMD efforts in a VP 15 update.

I'm sorry to say that AMD support will not be in the next update which I mentioned is coming in the next weeks. Still, I fully expect that we will have improved AMD support in a free VP 15 update to come. I could be wrong, but it won't be because we wanted to trick you and knew all along we couldn't deliver. It will be because we can't get past the hurdles we currently face.

This is a good reminder for me to be more careful about how I refer to future plans from here out. I will heed the warning.

The only caveat to this arrangement of using the subscription vs. perpetual licenses is that if while using the subscription model you employ one of the included plug ins (Plugins: NewBlueFX Filters Ultimate, HitFilm Movie Essentials, VEGAS DVD architect, Ozone Elements 8 by iZotope), it seems to me that it would be impossible to use these projects either in your 'perpetual' licensed version or a later subscription version (16+) if you do not own the above plug ins. Is this correct?

That is an excellent question. VEGAS DVD Architect is a subscription version. It will expire when the VEGAS Pro subscription expires. The third-party tools are perpetual licenses, so you will still have access to those if later you decide to open your project with a perpetual version of VP. The caveat to that is that sometime vendors host or version lock their plug-ins to the product they are included with. We are trying to discourage our partners from doing so, but that is ultimately up to them.

Will the subscription model version (365) have a different name/file structure? I was thinking about possible compatibility issues with older plugins with their installers not recognizing 365? Like the issues I had with VASST etc...

I quote myself, as I wonder if plugins, tools, scripts which were compatible with Vegas 15 will be able to install successfully on 365

I understand that the internal code is identical, but what about the plugin installers, do the third party companies need to adapt their installers?