The discussion is balanced enough, or was something deleted or censored here?

But users who post again and again the same points in different threads like their complains against copy right protection methodes harm the community rules and blow off steam only. Or who come near to state that others are liars.

So avoid that or we have to close this discussion.

Frankly, if it was up to me, which it isn’t, i'd let people vent about the ransomware and associated copyright issues, it would then eventually blow over.

Threatening to close it down smacks of something to hide/run away from, in this case the hot topic of ransomware.

I'm really at a loss as to how you think this isn’t/cannot be part of the discussion.

Referring to VEGAS Pro 365 as "ransomware" is misleading and provocative. It implies that if you stop your subscription, you can no longer access your work, which is not true. You can switch back to a regular version whenever you like and still access your work.

Nick, I'm not sure you're correct here. Take Premiere for example, they are always changing things that make backward compatibility impossible. So let's say I own Vegas 15 (which I do) and then use the subscription for a year in Vegas 16. I'd say it's almost a certainty that my Vegas 16 projects will not be compatible with Vegas 15. That is the nature of subscription based models that do not allow you to own a version up to the point of when your subscription ends. It is in a real sense "ransomware" that requires to always have a subscription if you need to work on an old project even if you've moved on to other software. Alternatively there are subscriptions like Xara Web Designer 365 (a Magix product) that allow you to use the program in perpetuity after your subscription ends. You just no longer received updates beyond the version when your subscription lapsed but at least you can open projects you made. That in my mind is a reasonable subscription model, the other type is "ransomware" and is the reason I gave the finger to Adobe.

We will have to see where this ends up in the long run. Adobe also said they would always have a purchase version for Lightroom until they said they will not which is what just happened. Adobe seems to be successful even when they betray their users, Vegas I'm not so sure will be if they do the same. It's just not that good of a program anymore and has been living for far too long on it's past genius. Just look at how many half baked features they've come up with over the years while neglecting some of the core functionality that needed and still needs serious attention to bring it in line with competing editing programs.

...So let's say I own Vegas 15 (which I do) and then use the subscription for a year in Vegas 16. I'd say it's almost a certainty that my Vegas 16 projects will not be compatible with Vegas 15. That is the nature of subscription based models that do not allow you to own a version up to the point of when your subscription ends. It is in a real sense "ransomware" that requires to always have a subscription if you need to work on an old project even if you've moved on to other software...

Well obviously if you stop your subscription then you'll have to buy an up-to-date regular version to continue your projects, but a) At least you can, and b) You knew that when you entered the subscription deal. If it turns out that Magix do stop the regular versions before your subscription ends then fair enough, you could feel held hostage, but that's not what they've said.

...Alternatively there are subscriptions like Xara Web Designer 365 (a Magix product) that allow you to use the program in perpetuity after your subscription ends. You just no longer received updates beyond the version when your subscription lapsed but at least you can open projects you made. That in my mind is a reasonable subscription model...

I can't find details of that offering on the web (even via here and here), but that sounds like a remarkably generous model. If that were applied to Vegas Pro 365 it would effectively equate to a purchase of a full perpetual license for $60 (3 months) or $200 (12 months), with the payments spread monthly. That seems very unlikely to happen when you compare it with the cost of the regular versions.

If that were applied to Vegas Pro 365 it would effectively equate to a purchase of a full perpetual license for $60 (3 months) or $200 (12 months), with the payments spread monthly.

Exactly.

If that were applied to Vegas Pro 365 it would effectively equate to a purchase of a full perpetual license for $60 (3 months) or $200 (12 months), with the payments spread monthly. That seems very unlikely to happen when you compare it with the cost of the regular versions.

+ 1
That also would suits me - but not the actual offer.

Walter

I'll continue with the full perpetual license and check the special upgrade offers.

@Nick

“Referring to VEGAS Pro 365 as "ransomware" is misleading and provocative. It implies that if you stop your subscription, you can no longer access your work, which is not true. You can switch back to a regular version whenever you like and still access your work.”

“It implies that if you stop your subscription, you can no longer access your work, which is not true.”

Surely if you only ever have a 365 version then it is true, unless/until you pay the ransom.

Do you mean by regular version VP, non 365?

If so, unless i’m missing something, a user that opts for only a 365 version has to pony up again if he has let his subscription expire. He either renews his subscription or purchases VP with same or better ver. no. Not everyone will have 365 and also say VP.

So its certainly not misleading to call it ransomware, until the user pays again he/she cannot use their projects, the essence of ransomware, the user pays the ransom or they don’t get to use THEIR projects.

To call it for what it is isn’t provocative, its what it is, ransomware. But ...

I have no doubt that companies that are involved in this would prefer us to use a more suitably scented description, whether they like it or not Magix knows full well that they’ve now joined this club with Vegas Pro.

Thats why I had difficulties with the marketing blurb, basically stating that you get to keep your projects. It turned out to be just marketing waffle.

“What happens to my projects?

Even if you end or suspend your subscription, your projects are yours to keep forever.”

I tried to read something more into it than as it turned out was the case. I thought that it might be a positive Magix wrinkle on ransomware, say ransomware lite. But Gary cleared that up, answer (A).

So that marketing statement was essentially empty, after all what company in their right mind would NOT let you keep your projects, and delete them, or maybe keep them and release to you only when you re-subscribed.

If so, unless i’m missing something, a user that opts for only a 365 version has to pony up again if he has let his subscription expire. He either renews his subscription or purchases VP with same or better ver. no. Not everyone will have 365 and also say VP.

And what happens if the product or manufacturer doesn't exit anymore?

....Thats why I had difficulties with the marketing blurb, basically stating that you get to keep your projects. It turned out to be just marketing waffle.

“What happens to my projects?

Even if you end or suspend your subscription, your projects are yours to keep forever.”

I tried to read something more into it than as it turned out was the case. I thought that it might be a positive Magix wrinkle on ransomware, say ransomware lite. But Gary cleared that up, answer (A).

So that marketing statement was essentially empty, after all what company in their right mind would NOT let you keep your projects, and delete them, or maybe keep them and release to you only when you re-subscribed.

@Former user I guess that by saying that, Magix were attempting to assure subscribers that their projects won't be locked away in the cloud, or locked to a subscription-only service.

As for "ransomware", take a look at some definitions including this one. It's an unfair term for Adobe CC, let alone Vegas Pro 365.

....Thats why I had difficulties with the marketing blurb, basically stating that you get to keep your projects. It turned out to be just marketing waffle.

“What happens to my projects?

Even if you end or suspend your subscription, your projects are yours to keep forever.”

I tried to read something more into it than as it turned out was the case. I thought that it might be a positive Magix wrinkle on ransomware, say ransomware lite. But Gary cleared that up, answer (A).

So that marketing statement was essentially empty, after all what company in their right mind would NOT let you keep your projects, and delete them, or maybe keep them and release to you only when you re-subscribed.

@Former user I guess that by saying that, Magix were attempting to assure subscribers that their projects won't be locked away in the cloud, or locked to a subscription-only service.

As for "ransomware", take a look at some definitions including this one. It's an unfair term for Adobe CC, let alone Vegas Pro 365.

"or perpetually block access to it unless a ransom is paid"

How is that any different from what is happening with subscription models like Adobe CC or they the direction Vegas is heading? If I don't have a valid subscription, I will not be able to open a project created on that software.

It would be already ok if one can open the project but not be able to make changes and still can render it to any of the codecs that came with the last license subscribed or be able to export the edit data into another software with an EDL or other file format.

"or perpetually block access to it unless a ransom is paid"

How is that any different from what is happening with subscription models like Adobe CC or they the direction Vegas is heading?...

You enter into an agreement for Adobe CC or Vegas Pro 365, knowing the terms. With ransomware as described by that Wikipedia type of definition (i.e. malware like WannaCry), you don't.

"or perpetually block access to it unless a ransom is paid"

How is that any different from what is happening with subscription models like Adobe CC or they the direction Vegas is heading?...

You enter into an agreement for Adobe CC or Vegas Pro 365, knowing the terms. With ransomware as described by that Wikipedia type of definition (i.e. malware like WannaCry), you don't.

How does knowing it make it any better when there is no alternative? You are still not able to use the project file, a file that now contains your own intellectual property/creation. From my perspective, such a subscription model should be made illegal unless an alternative is provided alongside. What happens if literally every software company follows it? Would you still be ok with that?

Or what happens when hardware becomes subscription based? Let's say your camera? You can only record if your subscription is up to date. yes, you can say you still own the camera but you cant use it.

How does knowing it make it any better when there is no alternative?...

There are alternatives: In the case of Vegas, use the non-subscription version. Or in any case, use a different company's software.

How does knowing it make it any better when there is no alternative?

What are you even talking about? There is an alternative. The old options still exist along side the new. Why are some of you consistently trying to confuse people here by making them believe the world has changed for the darker because we added a new option?

If you don't like the idea of a subscription, then buy the perpetual license. If you don't like the idea of a company even giving you the option of a subscription, then you can decide not to buy from that company at all. If you believe that adding a new option is a guarantee of darker things to come, then you have the option to get out now before you are harmed.

I'm sorry if our addition of a subscription option for customers other than you offends you deeply enough that you stop doing business with us. I personally don't hold the opinion that more options is a bad thing, but you apparently do, at least in this situation, and I respect that.

If you choose to stop buying VEGAS Pro because we offered you a new option, I'm sorry to see you go. I hope one day that we can re-earn your trust. I understand that we may never be able to do so. In that case, I wish you the best of luck in your future with whatever product you choose to continue your work with.

Finally, I have publicly stated several times that the perpetual license will still be available. And, in fact, if you look at the website, you will quickly see that the perpetual options are indeed still available. Yes, that could change in the future. Anything could happen in the future. But in the present, the statement is honest. I know of no plans within our company to discontinue the perpetual options.

Yes, that could change in the future. Anything could happen in the future. But in the present, the statement is honest. I know of no plans within our company to discontinue the perpetual options.

I have never said that your "current" statement is dishonest but by your own admission, things can change.

I certainly will buy the perpetual license as long as it is offered. I just haven't upgraded to V15 because my AMD card is not supported, alongside a long list of known issues.

With Resolve I am still in the learning phase and who is to say that their current perpetual license model doesn't change too.

I also mentioned that I would be ok with a subscription as long as there is a way to access my project files and extract the work, but no access to my own "creation" is a no go and that is the part where consumer protection is failing. How Adobe CC get's away with it is beyond me.

I just haven't upgraded to V15 because my AMD card is not supported, alongside a long list of known issues.

I understand your pain and am sorry for it. We are working closely with AMD to implement improved support for their cards as quickly as possible. The next free update (in the upcoming weeks) will solve many known issues. Not all, but some big ones.

I just haven't upgraded to V15 because my AMD card is not supported, alongside a long list of known issues.

I understand your pain and am sorry for it. We are working closely with AMD to implement improved support for their cards as quickly as possible. The next free update (in the upcoming weeks) will solve many known issues. Not all, but some big ones.

That is good to hear and I am looking forward to it. I just wonder how I will be able to test it since my VP15 trial has already expired.

That is good to hear and I am looking forward to it. I just wonder how I will be able to test it since my VP15 trial has already expired.

What is a typical example for the bias that seems to exist in some heads here: advantages are not seen or accepted at all. The new product is something that could be used to extend the test period before purchased the perpetual license.

I just wonder how I will be able to test it since my VP15 trial has already expired.

@OldSmoke, I've asked our support lead to contact you directly so that we can get a better handle on the issues that are holding you back. Look for a message from him within a day or two.

Really Wolfgang S. 1st your making derogatory remarks about people’s ability based on their age, now it’s their heads that are biased. Where will this stop?

Better to stay focussed on the issue. Gary says he's giving us more options with the subscription model, but this overlooks the fact that if you only purchase the subscription version your at a serious disadvantage if you let it lapse and have no semi perpetual version. Purchasing the semi perpetual version (see kit-as-was post re: need for monthly phone in) means that if you don’t purchase the next semi perpetual version you CAN still load your projects, the subscription model is a backwards step for most, not all users.

No doubt its a seriously forward looking step for Magix. Why? well various reports coming in just now in the new year report that it is true that last November some Turkeys did vote for Christmas.