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I have Vegas Pro 15 Edit and had offers to upgrade to 16, either Edit or the next one up for 149$ and 199$, respectively. With version 17 on the horizon, but not imminent, Magix has offered (once again) upgrades to 16, available now, and to 17 when it becomes available, but for a cost of 50$ more than just an upgrade to 16. Thus, anyone who wanted an upgrade to 16 at this point would be very upset if 17 came out a few months later and they could have skipped 16, and gone straight to 17 probably for 149$ (Edit) or 199$, which I expect will be the upgrade price.
If I had upgraded to 16 Edit a month or so ago, I would have paid 149$. Then when 17 came out, I would have had to pay another 149$ if I wanted it. Total = 298$.
Knowing that 17 was on the horizon, I likely would not have upgraded. So, in order to entice me to upgrade to 16 now and get a bit more cash, Magix would have to offer me a discount of some kind. Thus they are offering an upgrade to 16 and with 17 thrown in at a discount. If I accept their offer, Magix would at least get 50$ for version 16 that they likely would not have gotten otherwise. As well, they would get the 149$ for version 17 now, rather than later. I don't see anything wrong with this and I think that it is a good marketing strategy and good business sense.
As we get closer to the release date, the offer makes less and less sense unless one wants version 16 with most of the bugs sorted out and then intends to wait 6 to 12 months for the version 17 bugs to be sorted out. In this case, it makes perfect sense to take up the offer now. It will expire.
Why will it expire? As soon as version 17 is out, the offer will definitely be gone, if not gone before, as implied in the offer (valid until Aug. 4). We will be offered upgrades from previous versions at the upgrade price of probably 149$/199$. Version 16 will no longer be available.
Depending on your personal strategy and situation, it is either wise to accept the offer now, or wise to wait. Obviously, if you already have 16, then you should wait and pay less, and also wait to see if the new features are sufficient to entice you to purchase the upgrade to 17. Or, wait for a year.
Based on the past offerings, a year from now, Magix will probably be offering a discount to upgrade to version 17 with 18 when it comes out. And so on...
@OndrejPopp This forum is not for personnel matters (you could send a private message for this or take a look into the community rules where the moderators roll is explained). Please return to the factual topic related to the software products.
@Marco. This is not about "personal matters" but about responsibility. Now, I have made a suggestion to Magix marketing concerning the apparent "Market salesman attitude" and how to do this better. Vkmast responded to that telling me the Magix appreciates this, but ,"unfortunately", Magix marketing does not read this forum. And then I was thinking, maybe vkmast should take his responsibility and now you Marco, to forward this message to them. Unless ofcourse they really don't care. And I am not going to do this for you, because I am not a moderator over here. And you are. And that's all. And frankly, just to make a point here, about losing customers, I have decided to postpone my order of Vegas pro 17, and to have a look at Davinci Resolve. And if Magix really does not care, nor do the moderators, while they think they can "moderate" and bully others around for making funny or sarcastic remarks about the Magix market salesman attitude, then why should I invest in this company? And that's all.
@OndrejPopp you misquote me. I never said "Magix marketing does not read this forum". My words were "regularly checked by the dev team, but not necessarily by Magix Marketing".
@OndrejPopp you misquote me. I never said "Magix marketing does not read this forum". My words were "regularly checked by the dev team, but not necessarily by Magix Marketing".
@vkmast That is too subtle to waste my time with vkmast. They either read this forum or not. But what does it matter? Because if you think they don't read this forum "reguraly", whatever that really means, why don't you take your responsibility to forward my suggestion to them? And so I was getting the impression that you do not really take your responsibility towards Magix while you appear to speak here on their behalf. And so I decided that before I am going to point out your responsibility towards Magix to you, or not at all, it is a good idea to ask you, vkmast, who you really are so it would be clear where your responsibilities really lie. And then a funny thing happens...
You keep silent as the grave, while others respond explaining to me how to figure this out for my self, which is appreciated, and so I learn that you are a moderator over here. But then suddenly an other moderator comes along, Marco, telling me what to do? The question is, why is it necessary for an other moderator to meddle with this? And why is one moderator not enough? Two moderators against one concerned customer boys? That is very evil. Possible intimidation, abuse of power, conspiring against the customer and cover up practices. And so, because this has happened, I have also one suggestion for you vkmast. And that is, if I ask you who you are vkmast, and you are a moderator over here, then maybe you should just give me my answer instead of conspiring against me with your other moderator boyfriends.... Hero.
The Community rules which @Marco. referred to state that "2.4. The editors and moderators of vegascreativesoftware.info can provide you with tips for using the service, and they also watch the community and moderate discussions. However, they are not official MAGIX Support staff members. If you don't receive an answer to your question, get in touch with MAGIX Support".
That is very evil. Possible intimidation, abuse of power, conspiring against the customer and cover up practices.
That sure is a long way to stretch things over a minor concern over the way a company from Germany chooses to market a product they own that is developed by a team in Wisconsin (and it's the USA team you'll find occasionally checking these forums, not their German bosses). If there were a conspiracy to bully you into silence, why weren't you banned the first time you broke the rules by speaking off topic, or the subsequent times you continued to do so after being warned and then followed with sarcastic and borderline homophobic insults regarding the moderation team?
Honestly, mods, after that last outburst, maybe we don't need this person's kind around these forums. Just my thoughts..
I think John-Brown's post wrapped up the discussion about the validity of this marketing strategy, hit the nail right on the head.
@OndrejPopp @vkmast @Marco. Hi guys. I am one of the VEGAS developers. The moderators do a great job. Please do not take everything so seriously and help each other. This forum is mainly maintained by experienced users (moderators) and we all should help new users to improve their way of working with VEGAS. That's why we're all here. We all love VEGAS and want to design it (with new ideas) into our VEGAS. It is absolutely right that the developers follow this forum very closely and we are in a good email contact with the moderators. Some of you (like @jrb101) may have noticed that we take the wishes of you very seriously and try to deliver them in one of the next updates or releases.
Some facts:
@OndrejPopp @vkmast @Marco. Hi guys. I am one of the VEGAS developers. The moderators do a great job. Please do not take everything so seriously and help each other. This forum is mainly maintained by experienced users (moderators) and we all should help new users to improve their way of working with VEGAS. That's why we're all here. We all love VEGAS and want to design it (with new ideas) into our VEGAS. It is absolutely right that the developers follow this forum very closely and we are in a good email contact with the moderators. Some of you (like @jrb101) may have noticed that we take the wishes of you very seriously and try to deliver them in one of the next updates or releases.
Some facts:
- Gary Rebholz is the product owner (no developer) of the VEGAS group and is reading all your posts/emails and is the connection between your wishes and the Magix marketing team in Germany (and the "German bosses")
- VEGAS is not only developed in Madison. Sebastian and I work in Berlin (Germany) and you can meet our small team at Facebook. This month you can find some facts about Blake. He is really cool and he is led the development of the Screen Capturing feature (released in Movie Studio Platinum update)
- we are not allowed to comment VP17 or VEGAS POST yet but VP17 has the longest feature list VEGAS has ever seen
- we (developers, product owner, tester, marketing team, Magix family and the "German bosses" 😉) are very excited about the release date to show you all the new stuff
Thanks @VEGASPascal - I did notice that my wishlist seemed to be answered! I'm pleased I took a bet on 16+17 before knowing what features would be in it...
Thanks for keeping up the development of Vegas Pro - despite the other options around I can still edit way faster in Vegas Pro as it fits my way of thinking!
@jrb101 Not only yours. The feature requests post is everytime a good point to find the connection to the user.
One fact for VEGAS is missing and we are very proud of this:
#FastestNLE
Most of those:
do not support GPU Encoding on AMD Hardware...
I think PowerDirector supports AMD GPU Encoding.
So, this is more of a benchmark of CPU vs. GPU Encoding on that hardware configuration - which a low end CPU like that will always lose at; and that low end GPU isn't going to perform well in software like Resolve when working with effects and color. It's comparable to a GTX1050Ti/1060.
Put it on an Intel/Nvidia machine, and suddenly things flip - except Media Composer is likely to come in at the bottom (as it does not use GPU Encoding - even on Intel/Nvidia hardware).
If you remove the GPU from the equation, then VEGAS Pro will be close to last on that list...
That's really the most objective way to compare rendering efficiency across different NLEs, as Professional Editors render to ProRes/DNxHD/DNxHR/HQ/HQX more than they do to H.264/HEVC (which is only used for distributable). I upload ProRes and DNxHD/R to YouTube/Vimeo, so I barely ever render H.264/HEVC, even for that stuff.
Even smartphones have really good H.264/HEVC Rendering Speeds, due to Encoder SIPs on the SoCs.
Unremarkable comparison.
He does make a valid point that many of those NLEs don't support ProRes or DNxHR export, so h264 was one of the best commonly used export codecs to test across them all.
And surprise surprise..the offer is extended to August 4th. But for sure that will be the last time they extend it...definitely
We all know how it works, thanks. You can, of course, point out the obvious if you feel the need, but you are peeing into the wind.
He does make a valid point that many of those NLEs don't support ProRes or DNxHR export, so h264 was one of the best commonly used export codecs to test across them all.
Not valid, at all, as the Encoder for ProRes and DNxHR is completely different than that for H.264 - so this completely changes the nature of the comparison. ProRes and DNxHR aren't Hardware Encoded, so it at least deletes the potential error of comparing Hardware Encode performance with Software Encoder performance... which is what this comparison did.
This is like comparing the run times of an Olympic sprinter against middle school children, and then claiming he's the fastest man on the planet. It's a completely flawed, literally invalid comparison.
I have multiple NLEs, and VEGAS has some of the slowest CPU Encode times, so anyone who says it's the fastest is almost assuredly comparing it against CPU Encode speeds on other NLEs... most likely on an AMD/AMD setup... as those NLEs have superior CPU encodes due to their superior playback and effects engines, and adding Hardware Encoding only supplements that advantage.
Or maybe MAGIX should release a Hardware Configuration Guide for optimum setups, so that we can all partake in those "fastest on the planet" times... cause I'm definitely not seeing them - or even close.
EDIT: Other digital intermediate formats exist: XAVC-I, Cineform, HQX, etc. The latter of which is trivial to add to most Windows NLEs (AVI Container, tiny CODEC installer). But most Pro Editors will support at least XAVC-I natively.
And surprise surprise..the offer is extended to August 4th. But for sure that will be the last time they extend it...definitely
It would be nice to know more about what the update brings.
If someone hasn't upgraded by now, then this marketing tactic is not likely to work as they didn't even keep the promotional pricing it had before this kicked in.
They'd pay just as much waiting for 17 to release as taking this deal, and the "free 16" still would likely not be anything they want, or will even use... Maybe they can resale it... Maybe. Depends on if the v17 emails are based on actual serial registration to your MAGIX account, or simply buying the key from MAGIX during the promotional period.
If the latter, I can see someone buying the upgrade and then reselling the v16 key for $125-150 to get most of their money back.
Cineform and XAVC-I are decoded in Vegas as 10bit - but not the Canopus/GV codecs.
Sorry, @Former user not buyin' what yer sellin'
This is like comparing the run times of an Olympic sprinter against middle school children, and then claiming he's the fastest man on the planet. It's a completely flawed, literally invalid comparison.
Terrible analogy. H.264 encoding is not some "unwanted poor relative" workflow. It's THE mainstay delivery format for most of the worlds video. Being good at this is important, and it's a feather in Vegas' cap that it does such a good job. Too bad the other NLE's didn't measure up.
All you are really doing is reframing the competition rules to support your anti-Vegas bias.
Oh, and by the way, don't imagine you are the only one who has experience of multiple NLE's. Many, many users on this forum can also claim this.
Sorry, @Former user not buyin' what yer sellin'
This is like comparing the run times of an Olympic sprinter against middle school children, and then claiming he's the fastest man on the planet. It's a completely flawed, literally invalid comparison.
Terrible analogy. H.264 encoding is not some "unwanted poor relative" workflow. It's THE mainstay delivery format for most of the worlds video. Being good at this is important, and it's a feather in Vegas' cap that it does such a good job. Too bad the other NLE's didn't measure up.
All you are really doing is reframing the competition rules to support your anti-Vegas bias.
Oh, and by the way, don't imagine you are the only one who has experience of multiple NLE's. Many, many users on this forum can also claim this.
The point of hardware VCE encodes being compared against software only encoders (many of the apps he used do not support AMD GPU acceleration, and he used an AMD GPU) is valid, and does render the results of this test invalid.
That said, it does speak for how versatile Vegas is, and how lacking some of these other apps are, as far as hardware support goes. Vegas gives its users far more hardware options and in some cases that means performance advantages. Nvidia doesn't take the crown every time.
We all know how it works, thanks. You can, of course, point out the obvious if you feel the need, but you are peeing into the wind.
Classy response....
Anyhow moving on - I am repeating the above-mentioned YouTuber's tests using Vegas v15 and v16 - and also Intel QSV along with the RX580 and the nVidia GTX 1070 (both 8GB versions) - it is looking very interesting so far. I managed to get his exact files and LUT example from him.
My Intel 8700K is so much quicker than his AMD 1700 CPU. Oh and I just picked up the new 5700XT AMD card so will throw that into the mix too...
But for a comparative example, he renders the files in 4 minutes 46 seconds using the AMD HW Acceleration profile. My Intel CPU with the almost identical AMD RX580 nailed it in 3:53
Also very interesting is to see that v16 is indeed substantially quicker at rendering than v15. For example v15 took 4:42 for the same test, almost a minute slower.
Full results to come when all done...will take a few days
It seems that audio takes a back seat. What about the crackling problems in surround mixing? If that’s not fixed (after many years) can we at least get proper export support to protools with envelopes? What about waves plugin support? Is Vegas still programmed in the old school 32bit fashion? I’m not considering upgrading until that happens. It’s sad that Vegas can be so much more but I won’t jump to conclusions (yet)
Vegas is a non-linear video editor, it would only make sense for audio to take a back seat, though I agree that many of those bugs and features need long overdue attention... However, up until now, there have been more important video features that needed even more attention.