Anyone here shooting with a Sony FS7? (Hypergamma profiles, S-Log 1/2)

studio-4 wrote on 6/9/2021, 9:40 PM

I can't create new threads in the pro forum so I'll ask here. Is anyone by chance shooting with Sony FS7s? We're starting to shoot with these at work and I've been experimenting with the hypergamma presets. I've been looking for those with the best knee-characteristics with the most highlight-compression. I've found these to be the most effective:

Sony FS7 hypergamma presets:

1. HG24600G30
2. HG24600G33
3. HG24600G40

We're only shooting 1080p23.978 @ 1/48th (since we're a 1080i60 broadcast show), and have zero need to shoot in 4K. However, they may be budgeting additional resources for color-grading, so I'm considering experimenting in Sony S-Log 1/2. Though I'm not an editor on the show (I'm an ENG/EFP shooter), I'm just curious if anyone here has any experience with Sony S-Log 1/2 in Vegas.

asus laptop system specifications:
Asus 17.3" Republic of Gamers Strix G17 model: 77H0ROG1.
Ryzen 9 5900HX 3.3GHz (4.6GHz boost), eight-core CPU.
Nvidia GeForce RTX 3060 (6GB GDDR6).
32GB Crucial 3200MHz DDR4 (x2 16GB 120-pin SO-DIMMs).
512GB M.2 NMVe PCIe SSD (available second M.2 slot).

OS: installed on 7/1/2021:
Windows 10 Home 64-bit; OS version 20H2; build 19042.1052.
Windows Feature Experience Pack 120.2212.2020.0.

asus laptop installed applications:
Vegas Movie Studio 17 Platinum; version 17.0 (build 221); purchased via download 29 May 2021.
Microsoft Edge (default browser; no plug-ins).

asus laptop OpenFX add-ons:
BorisFX Continuum 2021.5 (subscription).
NewBlue Elements 3 Overlay.

HP desktop system specifications:
HP Z440 Intel Xeon E5-1650 v3 3.5GHz (4GHz-boost), quad-core CPU.
32GB DDR4 ECC RAM.
1TB SATA SSD.
AMD Radeon RX470 4GB
AMD Radeon R7200.

OS:
Windows 10 Pro 64-bit; OS version 20H2; build 19042.985.
Windows Feature Experience Pack 120.2212.2020.0.

HP desktop installed applications:
Vegas Movie Studio 17 Platinum; version 17.0 (build 221); purchased via download 29 May 2021.
Blackmagic Design Media Express 2.3 for Windows 10.
WinDV 1.2.3.
Microsoft Edge (default browser; no plug-ins).

HP desktop OpenFX add-ons:
FXhome Ignite Advanced VFX pack.
BorisFX' Stylize Unit 2020.5.
NewBlue Elements 3 Overlay.

cameras/VTRs:



Sony NEX-FS100 Super35 1080p24/50/60 digital-cine camera.
Sony NEX-FS700 Super35 1080p24/50/60/240/960 high-speed digital-cine camera.
Sony NEX-5R APS-C 1080p60 cameras (x3).
Sony DSR450WSL 2/3" 480p24 16:9 DVCAM camera.
Sony VX1000 1/3" 480i60 4:3 miniDV camera.
Sony DSR11 DVCAM VTR.

personal websites:

YouTube channel: modularfilms

photography/iighting website: http://lightbasics.com/

Comments

Musicvid wrote on 6/9/2021, 10:01 PM

We're only shooting 1080p23.978 @ 1/48th (since we're a 1080i60 broadcast show)

Then why would you shoot in a format that is undeliverable for broadcast? The conversion time also seems to run counter to your other statement, "I'm an ENG/EFP shooter."

You need to be able to dump blind footage direct-to-air in order to do any of that. Maybe with a little more experience under your belt, these questions will start to answer themselves . . .

studio-4 wrote on 6/10/2021, 12:23 AM

We're only shooting 1080p23.978 @ 1/48th (since we're a 1080i60 broadcast show)

Then why would you shoot in a format that is undeliverable for broadcast? The conversion time also seems to run counter to your other statement, "I'm an ENG/EFP shooter."

You need to be able to dump blind footage direct-to-air in order to do any of that. Maybe with a little more experience under your belt, these questions will start to answer themselves . . .

The 1080p23.976 format is an acquisition-format. It gets transcoded to 1080i60 (the distribution-format) in post for broadcast (but retains the 24p filmlook). I meant we're only shooting in full-HD and the network has no plans to acquire in 4K anytime soon (which the current over-the-air infrastructure doesn't support).

As far as my experience as an ENG/EFP camera operator, I've been shooting broadcast television since the 1980s and have been working for a major broadcast TV network for the last 26 years.

Last changed by studio-4 on 6/12/2021, 1:34 PM, changed a total of 2 times.

asus laptop system specifications:
Asus 17.3" Republic of Gamers Strix G17 model: 77H0ROG1.
Ryzen 9 5900HX 3.3GHz (4.6GHz boost), eight-core CPU.
Nvidia GeForce RTX 3060 (6GB GDDR6).
32GB Crucial 3200MHz DDR4 (x2 16GB 120-pin SO-DIMMs).
512GB M.2 NMVe PCIe SSD (available second M.2 slot).

OS: installed on 7/1/2021:
Windows 10 Home 64-bit; OS version 20H2; build 19042.1052.
Windows Feature Experience Pack 120.2212.2020.0.

asus laptop installed applications:
Vegas Movie Studio 17 Platinum; version 17.0 (build 221); purchased via download 29 May 2021.
Microsoft Edge (default browser; no plug-ins).

asus laptop OpenFX add-ons:
BorisFX Continuum 2021.5 (subscription).
NewBlue Elements 3 Overlay.

HP desktop system specifications:
HP Z440 Intel Xeon E5-1650 v3 3.5GHz (4GHz-boost), quad-core CPU.
32GB DDR4 ECC RAM.
1TB SATA SSD.
AMD Radeon RX470 4GB
AMD Radeon R7200.

OS:
Windows 10 Pro 64-bit; OS version 20H2; build 19042.985.
Windows Feature Experience Pack 120.2212.2020.0.

HP desktop installed applications:
Vegas Movie Studio 17 Platinum; version 17.0 (build 221); purchased via download 29 May 2021.
Blackmagic Design Media Express 2.3 for Windows 10.
WinDV 1.2.3.
Microsoft Edge (default browser; no plug-ins).

HP desktop OpenFX add-ons:
FXhome Ignite Advanced VFX pack.
BorisFX' Stylize Unit 2020.5.
NewBlue Elements 3 Overlay.

cameras/VTRs:



Sony NEX-FS100 Super35 1080p24/50/60 digital-cine camera.
Sony NEX-FS700 Super35 1080p24/50/60/240/960 high-speed digital-cine camera.
Sony NEX-5R APS-C 1080p60 cameras (x3).
Sony DSR450WSL 2/3" 480p24 16:9 DVCAM camera.
Sony VX1000 1/3" 480i60 4:3 miniDV camera.
Sony DSR11 DVCAM VTR.

personal websites:

YouTube channel: modularfilms

photography/iighting website: http://lightbasics.com/

EricLNZ wrote on 6/10/2021, 2:59 AM

I can't create new threads in the pro forum

Why not? Anyway I'll transfer this thread to the Pro forum for you.

 

vkmast wrote on 6/10/2021, 3:22 AM

RogerS wrote on 6/10/2021, 3:48 AM

What exactly is your question regarding different formats in Vegas? Yes S-log works...

I use a collection of lesser Sonys with Cine 2 (Hypergamma 2) as a nice balanced format that's easy to expose for with good dynamic range and no complications like superwhites to deal with. S-log 2 and 3 are also popular formats.

Some info here on S-log 2 and 3: https://www.xdcam-user.com/2016/12/the-great-s-log2-or-s-log3-debate/

and for hypergammas:

https://www.xdcam-user.com/picture-settings-and-luts/picture-profile-guide/correct-exposure-with-cinegammas-and-hypergammas

Musicvid wrote on 6/10/2021, 12:50 PM

So, 1080 p24 Log -> 8 bit 709 Limited -> 1080 i60 telecine -> ATSC 1 broadcast?

Well, that is certainly an interesting workflow.

studio-460 wrote on 6/10/2021, 2:11 PM

I can't create new threads in the pro forum

Why not? Anyway I'll transfer this thread to the Pro forum for you.

Thanks! I can only create new threads in the Vegas Movie Studio forum (the pro forum is dimmed).

studio-460 wrote on 6/10/2021, 2:40 PM

What exactly is your question regarding different formats in Vegas? Yes S-log works...

I use a collection of lesser Sonys with Cine 2 (Hypergamma 2) as a nice balanced format that's easy to expose for with good dynamic range and no complications like superwhites to deal with. S-log 2 and 3 are also popular formats.

Thanks! Yes, that was one of my questions (i.e., "does it work?"). Again, I'm not a professional editor so a lot of this is new to me. I have a chip-chart coming tomorrow so we'll be better able to judge the hypergamma presets; though, on first-glance, HG24600G30 looks to have the most highlight roll-off.

Just read the hypergamma and S-Log articles you linked and found them very helpful! Yeah, I was just interested any users' experiences with Sony S-Log in Vegas (this is only for my own personal education—the show's editors will be cutting all our FS7 footage).

john_dennis wrote on 6/10/2021, 4:01 PM

None of my video is ever broadcast. I've avoided the log profiles with my Sony RX10-IV, but, I do shoot Cine 1 and Cine 2.Both are easily graded. I usually use those in high contrast situations.

Some of the commercials that I've watched on broadcast TV look like they recorded in log and just forgot to fully bake the look of the video in post. I guess they could always say, "It's a creative preference."

I've often thought if I had the variable electronic ND filter like in the FS7, I might be able to avoid the whole thing.

set wrote on 6/10/2021, 5:04 PM

I can't create new threads in the pro forum

Why not? Anyway I'll transfer this thread to the Pro forum for you.

Thanks! I can only create new threads in the Vegas Movie Studio forum (the pro forum is dimmed).

dimmed?

Feels strange as I guess one user account can have access to all section in this forum:

The Vegas Pro section goes split directly to 3 categories: about Video, Audio, and Scripting... for general talk of video editing, you can just go to Vegas Pro> Video section.

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studio-4 wrote on 6/10/2021, 8:04 PM

Hmmm . . . I just assumed since "Vegas Pro" was dimmed, I couldn't start a new thread there since I only have a VMS Platinum license. Here'e what my pull-down screen looks like:

Oh, duh! So I can just click on "video" under pro! (The dimmed "Vegas Pro" threw me).

Last changed by studio-4 on 6/10/2021, 8:05 PM, changed a total of 1 times.

asus laptop system specifications:
Asus 17.3" Republic of Gamers Strix G17 model: 77H0ROG1.
Ryzen 9 5900HX 3.3GHz (4.6GHz boost), eight-core CPU.
Nvidia GeForce RTX 3060 (6GB GDDR6).
32GB Crucial 3200MHz DDR4 (x2 16GB 120-pin SO-DIMMs).
512GB M.2 NMVe PCIe SSD (available second M.2 slot).

OS: installed on 7/1/2021:
Windows 10 Home 64-bit; OS version 20H2; build 19042.1052.
Windows Feature Experience Pack 120.2212.2020.0.

asus laptop installed applications:
Vegas Movie Studio 17 Platinum; version 17.0 (build 221); purchased via download 29 May 2021.
Microsoft Edge (default browser; no plug-ins).

asus laptop OpenFX add-ons:
BorisFX Continuum 2021.5 (subscription).
NewBlue Elements 3 Overlay.

HP desktop system specifications:
HP Z440 Intel Xeon E5-1650 v3 3.5GHz (4GHz-boost), quad-core CPU.
32GB DDR4 ECC RAM.
1TB SATA SSD.
AMD Radeon RX470 4GB
AMD Radeon R7200.

OS:
Windows 10 Pro 64-bit; OS version 20H2; build 19042.985.
Windows Feature Experience Pack 120.2212.2020.0.

HP desktop installed applications:
Vegas Movie Studio 17 Platinum; version 17.0 (build 221); purchased via download 29 May 2021.
Blackmagic Design Media Express 2.3 for Windows 10.
WinDV 1.2.3.
Microsoft Edge (default browser; no plug-ins).

HP desktop OpenFX add-ons:
FXhome Ignite Advanced VFX pack.
BorisFX' Stylize Unit 2020.5.
NewBlue Elements 3 Overlay.

cameras/VTRs:



Sony NEX-FS100 Super35 1080p24/50/60 digital-cine camera.
Sony NEX-FS700 Super35 1080p24/50/60/240/960 high-speed digital-cine camera.
Sony NEX-5R APS-C 1080p60 cameras (x3).
Sony DSR450WSL 2/3" 480p24 16:9 DVCAM camera.
Sony VX1000 1/3" 480i60 4:3 miniDV camera.
Sony DSR11 DVCAM VTR.

personal websites:

YouTube channel: modularfilms

photography/iighting website: http://lightbasics.com/

studio-4 wrote on 6/10/2021, 8:14 PM

None of my video is ever broadcast. I've avoided the log profiles with my Sony RX10-IV, but, I do shoot Cine 1 and Cine 2.Both are easily graded. I usually use those in high contrast situations . . .

. . . I've often thought if I had the variable electronic ND filter like in the FS7, I might be able to avoid the whole thing.

Thanks for your comments! Yeah, I'm in no rush to shoot S-Log. Gotta see what the LUTs looks like on our monitors and how accurate they are. It's only TV, so it's not like we're shooting national spots or one-hour dramas or anything. We have the camera on a test-bed now, so I'm just figuring out all of the in-camera menu options.

Note that I don't think the original FS7s have electronic ND (at least I haven't found it); only the new "M2" version does. I was shooting some daylight-exterior B-roll this week on the FS7 and even with the 1/64th ND filter in, I could only open up to f/5.6 at minimum ISO (we're using Canon Cinema Primes which open up to T/1.3!).

Last changed by studio-4 on 6/10/2021, 8:17 PM, changed a total of 2 times.

asus laptop system specifications:
Asus 17.3" Republic of Gamers Strix G17 model: 77H0ROG1.
Ryzen 9 5900HX 3.3GHz (4.6GHz boost), eight-core CPU.
Nvidia GeForce RTX 3060 (6GB GDDR6).
32GB Crucial 3200MHz DDR4 (x2 16GB 120-pin SO-DIMMs).
512GB M.2 NMVe PCIe SSD (available second M.2 slot).

OS: installed on 7/1/2021:
Windows 10 Home 64-bit; OS version 20H2; build 19042.1052.
Windows Feature Experience Pack 120.2212.2020.0.

asus laptop installed applications:
Vegas Movie Studio 17 Platinum; version 17.0 (build 221); purchased via download 29 May 2021.
Microsoft Edge (default browser; no plug-ins).

asus laptop OpenFX add-ons:
BorisFX Continuum 2021.5 (subscription).
NewBlue Elements 3 Overlay.

HP desktop system specifications:
HP Z440 Intel Xeon E5-1650 v3 3.5GHz (4GHz-boost), quad-core CPU.
32GB DDR4 ECC RAM.
1TB SATA SSD.
AMD Radeon RX470 4GB
AMD Radeon R7200.

OS:
Windows 10 Pro 64-bit; OS version 20H2; build 19042.985.
Windows Feature Experience Pack 120.2212.2020.0.

HP desktop installed applications:
Vegas Movie Studio 17 Platinum; version 17.0 (build 221); purchased via download 29 May 2021.
Blackmagic Design Media Express 2.3 for Windows 10.
WinDV 1.2.3.
Microsoft Edge (default browser; no plug-ins).

HP desktop OpenFX add-ons:
FXhome Ignite Advanced VFX pack.
BorisFX' Stylize Unit 2020.5.
NewBlue Elements 3 Overlay.

cameras/VTRs:



Sony NEX-FS100 Super35 1080p24/50/60 digital-cine camera.
Sony NEX-FS700 Super35 1080p24/50/60/240/960 high-speed digital-cine camera.
Sony NEX-5R APS-C 1080p60 cameras (x3).
Sony DSR450WSL 2/3" 480p24 16:9 DVCAM camera.
Sony VX1000 1/3" 480i60 4:3 miniDV camera.
Sony DSR11 DVCAM VTR.

personal websites:

YouTube channel: modularfilms

photography/iighting website: http://lightbasics.com/

john_dennis wrote on 6/10/2021, 8:36 PM

@studio-4 

I shot a sample of all the profiles from the Sony RX10-IV. They are here if you'd like to play with them.

Content and link removed to reclaim disk space.

This link is not permanent.

studio-4 wrote on 6/10/2021, 9:27 PM

@studio-4 

I shot a sample of all the profiles from the Sony RX10-IV. They are here if you'd like to play with them.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1zK2MZf_AMu9hFYhk_L-7HixCbOt8jKwP/view?usp=sharing

This link is not permanent.

Awesome! Thanks a lot for taking the time to do that!

asus laptop system specifications:
Asus 17.3" Republic of Gamers Strix G17 model: 77H0ROG1.
Ryzen 9 5900HX 3.3GHz (4.6GHz boost), eight-core CPU.
Nvidia GeForce RTX 3060 (6GB GDDR6).
32GB Crucial 3200MHz DDR4 (x2 16GB 120-pin SO-DIMMs).
512GB M.2 NMVe PCIe SSD (available second M.2 slot).

OS: installed on 7/1/2021:
Windows 10 Home 64-bit; OS version 20H2; build 19042.1052.
Windows Feature Experience Pack 120.2212.2020.0.

asus laptop installed applications:
Vegas Movie Studio 17 Platinum; version 17.0 (build 221); purchased via download 29 May 2021.
Microsoft Edge (default browser; no plug-ins).

asus laptop OpenFX add-ons:
BorisFX Continuum 2021.5 (subscription).
NewBlue Elements 3 Overlay.

HP desktop system specifications:
HP Z440 Intel Xeon E5-1650 v3 3.5GHz (4GHz-boost), quad-core CPU.
32GB DDR4 ECC RAM.
1TB SATA SSD.
AMD Radeon RX470 4GB
AMD Radeon R7200.

OS:
Windows 10 Pro 64-bit; OS version 20H2; build 19042.985.
Windows Feature Experience Pack 120.2212.2020.0.

HP desktop installed applications:
Vegas Movie Studio 17 Platinum; version 17.0 (build 221); purchased via download 29 May 2021.
Blackmagic Design Media Express 2.3 for Windows 10.
WinDV 1.2.3.
Microsoft Edge (default browser; no plug-ins).

HP desktop OpenFX add-ons:
FXhome Ignite Advanced VFX pack.
BorisFX' Stylize Unit 2020.5.
NewBlue Elements 3 Overlay.

cameras/VTRs:



Sony NEX-FS100 Super35 1080p24/50/60 digital-cine camera.
Sony NEX-FS700 Super35 1080p24/50/60/240/960 high-speed digital-cine camera.
Sony NEX-5R APS-C 1080p60 cameras (x3).
Sony DSR450WSL 2/3" 480p24 16:9 DVCAM camera.
Sony VX1000 1/3" 480i60 4:3 miniDV camera.
Sony DSR11 DVCAM VTR.

personal websites:

YouTube channel: modularfilms

photography/iighting website: http://lightbasics.com/

Musicvid wrote on 6/12/2021, 10:12 AM

I shot a sample of all the profiles from the Sony RX10-IV. They are here if you'd like to play with them.

Thank you!