Rendering Options

OhMyGosh wrote on 5/14/2019, 11:36 AM

OMG, why is everything so difficult!? Made an intro that I will import into another program, so I want it to be as lossless and as close to original as possible. No effects or transitions. I go to 'Render As' and I mark 'Match Project Settings'. The only options I'm given are for audio even though I have the video track highlighted. I uncheck the project settings box. I look around and find what looks like the closest match which is Sony AVC/MVC AVCHD 1920x1080-60i, but there is no 60p to match my footage. Why does it only 'see' audio, and what template would be the best for keeping the footage as native as possible? I'm using vms 12. Thanks in advance. Cin

Ps. it won't let me post my mediainfo which is in txt. format! Great..... MPEG-4, 1920x1080 60p  

Comments

j-v wrote on 5/14/2019, 12:04 PM

OMG, why is everything so difficult!?

Because in newer versions than 12 there are a lot more modern possibilities to render to whatever type of file.

met vriendelijke groet
Jan

Camera : Pan X900,GoPro Hero7 Hero Black
Desktop :AsRock Z270 Pro4, W10 , i7 7700K 4.2Ghz,16 DDR4 GB RAM, Gef. GTX 1050 Ti.
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Both Nvidia GPU's have driver version 431.70 Studio Drivers
TV      :LG 4K 55EG960V

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Musicvid wrote on 5/14/2019, 12:20 PM

You should find templates that meet your needs in the trial of MSP 16. Or you can customize your own.

60p wasn't really much of a "thing" in 2012.

The AVCHD templates are 60i to meet standard.

vkmast wrote on 5/14/2019, 12:23 PM

@OhMyGosh FYI from here point 1. MediaInfo: "MediaInfo can be used to show the detailed properties of your source media, which is a great help in troubleshooting many VEGAS issues. Open your file with it, and switch it to text view ("View" > "Text"). Highlight all the text in the window, copy it and paste it in your forum post. You can put it in a code block using the blue < > brackets above the input window."

3POINT wrote on 5/14/2019, 12:50 PM

You can change and save following standard templates to meet your needs:

3POINT, Theo Houben, Vegasuser since version 5

Recware: DJI Osmo Pocket, GoproHero7Black, PanasonicFZ300/HCX909, Sony PXW-X160.

Software:VegasPro17/VegasMovieStudio16/PowerDirector16

Hardware:i7 4770, 16GB, GTX650ti, 1920x1200 display

Playware:Philips 55PFL7108

OhMyGosh wrote on 5/14/2019, 1:56 PM

Thanks to everyone, just want to get this done so I can stop bugging everyone here............

Musicvid and j-v, I upgraded to VMSP 16 the other day and it crashes every 2 minutes whether I like it or not! I've moved my project there now, but I'm not touching it at the moment so I can see the render settings. Why aren't the templates progressive like my media? Won't going from p to i cause loss and compatibility issues?

Thanks vkmast, I had a brain fade I guess. Someone just told me how to post the info and in my cluttered mind I remembered it as a text file. I was wrong again.........

Wow 3 point, if I could figure all that out myself I wouldn't be making home videos, I'd be working for NASA!!! :0 What would be so hard about having a 'Render Same as Source' button??

General Complete name                            : C:\Users\Cindy\Desktop\2018 Media for Gym DVD

\20180912_161714.mp4 Format                                   : MPEG-4 Format profile                           : Base Media / Version 2 Codec ID                                 : mp42 (isom/mp42) File size                                : 23.3 MiB Duration                                 : 7 s 61 ms Overall bit rate                         : 27.6 Mb/s Encoded date                             : UTC 2018-09-12 23:17:24 Tagged date                              : UTC 2018-09-12 23:17:24 xyz                                      : +00.0000+000.0000/ com.android.version                      : 8.1.0

Video ID                                       : 1 Format                                   : AVC Format/Info                              : Advanced Video Codec Format profile                           : High@L4.2 Format settings                          : CABAC / 1 Ref Frames Format settings, CABAC                   : Yes Format settings, Reference frames        : 1 frame Format settings, GOP                     : M=1, N=60 Codec ID                                 : avc1 Codec ID/Info                            : Advanced Video Coding Duration                                 : 6 s 878 ms Bit rate                                 : 28.1 Mb/s Width                                    : 1 920 pixels Height                                   : 1 080 pixels Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9 Frame rate mode                          : Variable Frame rate                               : 59.026 FPS Minimum frame rate                       : 44.357 FPS Maximum frame rate                       : 59.094 FPS Standard                                 : NTSC Color space                              : YUV Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0 Bit depth                                : 8 bits Scan type                                : Progressive Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.229 Stream size                              : 23.0 MiB (99%) Title                                    : VideoHandle Language                                 : English Encoded date                             : UTC 2018-09-12 23:17:24 Tagged date                              : UTC 2018-09-12 23:17:24 Color range                              : Limited Color primaries                          : BT.709 Transfer characteristics                 : BT.709 Matrix coefficients                      : BT.709 mdhd_Duration                            : 6878 Codec configuration box                  : avcC

Audio ID                                       : 2 Format                                   : AAC LC Format/Info                              : Advanced Audio Codec Low Complexity Codec ID                                 : mp4a-40-2 Duration                                 : 7 s 61 ms Bit rate mode                            : Constant Bit rate                                 : 256 kb/s Channel(s)                               : 2 channels Channel layout                           : L R Sampling rate                            : 48.0 kHz Frame rate                               : 46.875 FPS (1024 SPF) Compression mode                         : Lossy Stream size                              : 221 KiB (1%) Title                                    : SoundHandle Language                                 : English Encoded date                             : UTC 2018-09-12 23:17:24 Tagged date                              : UTC 2018-09-12 23:17:24

Hey, cool trick vkmast!!!!  ^^^^^^

Thanks again everyone. Cin

3POINT wrote on 5/14/2019, 2:35 PM

Wow 3 point, if I could figure all that out myself I wouldn't be making home videos, I'd be working for NASA!!! :0 What would be so hard about having a 'Render Same as Source' button?

It doesn't need rocket science to change a template, as long as a few parameters like framerate, resolution, fieldorder etc are equal. The problem with your source is that it is coming from a smartphone and has variable framerate instead of constant framerate. Movie Studio is not able to render to variable framerate, so the render output can never be exactly same as source.

3POINT, Theo Houben, Vegasuser since version 5

Recware: DJI Osmo Pocket, GoproHero7Black, PanasonicFZ300/HCX909, Sony PXW-X160.

Software:VegasPro17/VegasMovieStudio16/PowerDirector16

Hardware:i7 4770, 16GB, GTX650ti, 1920x1200 display

Playware:Philips 55PFL7108

j-v wrote on 5/14/2019, 3:04 PM

Musicvid and j-v, I upgraded to VMSP 16 the other day and it crashes every 2 minutes whether I like it or not! I've moved my project there now, but I'm not touching it at the moment so I can see the render settings. Why aren't the templates progressive like my media? Won't going from p to i cause loss and compatibility issues?

Very easy in version 16 to make those projectformats and rendersettings, sse the picture

met vriendelijke groet
Jan

Camera : Pan X900,GoPro Hero7 Hero Black
Desktop :AsRock Z270 Pro4, W10 , i7 7700K 4.2Ghz,16 DDR4 GB RAM, Gef. GTX 1050 Ti.
Laptop  :Asus ROG GL753VD, W10 home, version 1903 build 18.362,295 CPU i7 7700HQ, 16 GB RAM, GeF. GTX 1050 (2 GB) + Int. HD Graphics 630(2GB).VP 10,12,13,14,15,16,17 and VMS PL 10,13,14,15,16 are installed
Both Nvidia GPU's have driver version 431.70 Studio Drivers
TV      :LG 4K 55EG960V

Dutch video tutorials for beginners

My slogan is: BE OR BECOME A STEMCELL DONOR !!!

Musicvid wrote on 5/14/2019, 3:25 PM

OP stated "vms12" which does not have customizable templates.

vkmast wrote on 5/14/2019, 3:35 PM

If I recall correctly, VMS version 12 had only the Platinum version, but no basic one. Platinums have customizable templates. See this thread for the version history.

j-v wrote on 5/14/2019, 3:36 PM

OP stated "vms12" which does not have customizable templates.

If you mean my command?
That is a reaction on the quoted question of the OP who was switching to VMS PL16 trial

met vriendelijke groet
Jan

Camera : Pan X900,GoPro Hero7 Hero Black
Desktop :AsRock Z270 Pro4, W10 , i7 7700K 4.2Ghz,16 DDR4 GB RAM, Gef. GTX 1050 Ti.
Laptop  :Asus ROG GL753VD, W10 home, version 1903 build 18.362,295 CPU i7 7700HQ, 16 GB RAM, GeF. GTX 1050 (2 GB) + Int. HD Graphics 630(2GB).VP 10,12,13,14,15,16,17 and VMS PL 10,13,14,15,16 are installed
Both Nvidia GPU's have driver version 431.70 Studio Drivers
TV      :LG 4K 55EG960V

Dutch video tutorials for beginners

My slogan is: BE OR BECOME A STEMCELL DONOR !!!

Musicvid wrote on 5/14/2019, 4:15 PM

If I recall correctly, VMS version 12 had only the Platinum version, but no basic one. Platinums have customizable templates. See this thread for the version history.

Cyn, does your title say Vegas Movie Studio 12 or Vegas Movie Studio Platinum 12?

Wow, @vkmast that's reaching back in the memory banks -- our beloved Set's very first post!

And thanks for clarification. I see I didn't have Movie Studio until Platinum 13.

But I did have SoundForge XP and VV2. That was when MPEG-2 was too tough to preview smoothly (I know...)

;?)

vkmast wrote on 5/14/2019, 5:07 PM

That post from Sept. 2013 was @set's first posting on the SCS MS forum. As he mentioned he had already been active on the Pro section since late 2009 and in full swing ever since Oct. 2012.

OhMyGosh wrote on 5/14/2019, 11:13 PM

If I recall correctly, VMS version 12 had only the Platinum version, but no basic one. Platinums have customizable templates. See this thread for the version history.

Cyn, does your title say Vegas Movie Studio 12 or Vegas Movie Studio Platinum 12?

Wow, @vkmast that's reaching back in the memory banks -- our beloved Set's very first post!

And thanks for clarification. I see I didn't have Movie Studio until Platinum 13.

But I did have SoundForge XP and VV2. That was when MPEG-2 was too tough to preview smoothly (I know...)

;?)


Thanks for all the great help, it is truly appreciated. It is Platinum Musicvid, one more thing I probably didn't make very clear. Someone turned me on to that great video on Handbrake for beginners and I've watched it like 3 times so far. Can someone recommend a similarly understandable video that would help me understand rendering settings and some of the associated principals? I really would like to know and understand more, but unfortunately only have so much comprehension.... Thanks again. Cin

Musicvid wrote on 5/15/2019, 11:33 AM

Our friend @Eagle Six has been talking about this as a slightly simpler alternative to Handbrake.

As for your larger question, my advice is the same as for anyone else -- make lots of mistakes! Follow and trust your own eyes when making decisions, and as you've always done, run your results past others here.

There is no longer a collateral need not to be a fumblenut when trying out new things. I mean, its not like we're wasting film or tape or anything. Only thing I would suggest on the self-confidence side is, "If you're going to make a mistake, make it the best one you can!" No one here will laugh, because we all started at exactly the same place.

I used to publicly award pizza coupons to the chorus member who made the best mistake at any given rehearsal. The impact on self- and group confidence at curtain time was pretty obvious, and late or tentative entrances became a thing of the past.

OhMyGosh wrote on 5/15/2019, 1:13 PM

Wow, what a nice post Musicvid, I hope you aren't getting soft on us now!  ;)

     I've always been self conscious posting here because everyone is so ridiculously smart. I can almost feel their eyes roll when I post. They say ignorance is bliss, but unfortunately I'm just smart enough to know I'm not the brightest bulb on the tree. My teachers reminded me of that constantly, and I was home schooled!!  ;0

     I've been doing what you suggested and have been rendering a small clip over and over with different settings trying to see what looks the best to me. I've also been doing more reading and watching videos. It's always interested my, but just been a little out of my range of comprehension.

     Really great idea what you do for the choir, wish there were more people like that! I had no idea you did that. I'm about as good at singing and art as I am about understanding codecs! I was asked to drop out of art school after only one day because I was sooo bad, but that's another story! That's also why I got into video, because I wanted that to be my art.

Thanks again and hope you have a good day. Cin

Musicvid wrote on 5/15/2019, 2:53 PM

Ah yes, the artist vs. technician debate. Look at Poe's self-critical essay at the end of this post, which floats the notion that the best art arises from the best technique. There are opposite points of view among our crowd, I can assure you!

But that's not the angle from which I want to approach this. My most condensed criteria for editing video is summed up in answering three questions, in order:

  1. How does this result look to me? Does it meet my expectation, is it worse, is it better, or merely different than I wanted? If just different, can that "mistake" point the way to a result that is actually better than I planned, even taking me in a different direction? If that seems a bit scary, it means the artistry in you is working. Channel your stage fright into a great performance, because it will never happen otherwise. As I tell all my actors, the very worst thing that can happen is you might throw up.
  2. How does the result look to my admirers? I don't mean the roughshod opinions you will get on video forums. I mean the people who care about you and will let you know how your art affects them without hurting your feelings. Assuming we are not ridiculously talented, nor compelled to devote our entire lives to make money doing this, that feedback in itself can provide all of the gratification and confidence a superstar enjoys, without it being either fake or harboring unrealistic expectations.
  3. Does the result meet mainstream delivery standards and and best practices, so other people may enjoy it as well? That's what we are here for. There's no way anyone could understand the thousands of codec/wrapper combinations and colorspace requirements of each, unless they were immersed in post-production, a task usually reserved for complete artistic knuckleheads such as me.

Remember van Gogh? He saw the world through a different set of lenses, and faced abundant ridicule and rejection as a child because of Meniere's, a genetic condition (that my family also shares). Yet lurking inside all that misery was the perfect storm for unquestionably some of the greatest art that humanity has ever seen. My 19th c. litho of Beethoven, who wrote his greatest symphony while stone deaf, now occupies a place of much prominence in my studio for much the same reason (see signature).

Here is the link to Poe's essay, a piece I first read in college, and from which I never looked back in my own career paths, from imaging to music to education and writing, which make self-doubt, boredom, and giving up not an option as I enter my fourth, as yet undefined career.

I have no indication that you are artistically impaired, whatsoever.

https://www.eapoe.org/works/essays/philcmpb.htm

Musicvid wrote on 5/15/2019, 3:41 PM

Another HUGE Tip!

Don't spend very much time staring at a screen or making picky comparisons. That can make you crazy. Take a quick look, make a snap judgment, and put it down until tomorrow, when I promise you it will look different.

Read this old piece of mine completely, and know that these principles are true for everyone, not just certain individuals.

https://www.vegascreativesoftware.info/us/forum/over-correction-color-correction--33676/#ca167979

Go see a performance of Shakespeare's A Midsummer Nights Dream, and honor your Muses, because they will never lie, only deceive a little as needed to keep your art vibrant and fresh.

OhMyGosh wrote on 5/15/2019, 11:34 PM

     Wow, there is some sage advice here for everyone at all levels! Everything from technical to spiritual, and it's all greatly appreciated! Some of what you say Musicvid should really be made into a sticky, as truer words have never been spoken. The only form of non digital art that I still try and practice is air brushing, so I'm very familiar with what we call painting distance verses viewing distance. And yes, when you have your face inches away it looks completely different than when you step back. Also as you noted, put it down and look at it tomorrow and you can change your mind 180 degrees from what you felt sure about the day before. That coupled with how differently everything looks at different times of the day based on the light, it can really be hard to come to a firm decision as to what looks best.

     That's one of the biggest problems that I have when making a project. I'm my own worst critic and I know and see every flaw and imperfection. I can't kid or hide from myself, I know what's there. I don't believe I've ever made a project that I was 100% happy with. I've made some good ones and ones that other people were very happy and impressed with, but I always knew there were mistakes or that someone could have done better. All I can do is try and keep learning and hope that my next project is better than my last. Thanks for all the advice. Cin

Musicvid wrote on 5/16/2019, 12:25 AM

I don't believe I've ever made a project that I was 100% happy with.

Put it down for six months, enough time to forget all you've done, forgotten what you were concerned about, and pick it up again as a work now greater than the sum of its parts, imperfections and all.

You will be 100% happy. I promise.