I've been involved in the development of a number of products over the years. While we on the dev teams cared about proper branding, nobody outside the companies ever really do :-)

Maybe because there was no need to crack them?

@vkmast there was plenty of brand loyalty, just not brand pedantism on the forums :-)
This has gone way off topic for this thread :-)

This has gone way off topic for this thread :-)

Yess but
Who started this going off-topic?

@j-v Technically, Gary did by bringing up branding :-)

No, it was you who first made question marks on other helping users,
like this:

michael-harrison wrote on 4/10/2020, 5:19 PM

I'd also appreciate it if certain members would be less passive aggressive toward the use of people's use of "Sony" when asking for help. Sony developed the software for far longer than Magix has and some people are still using a Sony version when asking for help evaluating a newer version. It's natural for them to use the old name.

Instead of helping those new members, some people think it's entirely appropriate to s**t on them and refuse to help in any way until they drop "sony" from their question.

on which Gary was reacting on a very polite manner, because it's about the bussiness of him and his fellow workers.

Thanks for note Michael.

Hopefully I never being 'considered' aggressive due to those 'Sony's..., and I believe I do, but will take note about this. Let's help and remind each other in a good way. 🙂

I'd also appreciate it if certain members would be less passive aggressive toward the use of people's use of "Sony" when asking for help. Sony developed the software for far longer than Magix has and some people are still using a Sony version when asking for help evaluating a newer version. It's natural for them to use the old name.

Instead of helping those new members, some people think it's entirely appropriate to s**t on them and refuse to help in any way until they drop "sony" from their question.

@michael-harrison

When someone posts with "Sony Vegas" I see a red flag. I agree that long time users are used to calling Vegas "Sony Vegas" but there are two issues that have been raised.

One, if the OP does not give information as to which version, one has to ask. The information requested when creating a new post has the following as point 1:

When referring to a specific software product, remember to include the name and version­ number of the product. 

I and others expect to see this otherwise one is wasting energy trying to reply without knowing which version. If it really is Sony Vegas, then it would be v13 and before. How is one to know without asking. We have seen many posts under Vegas Pro when the OP has Vegas Movie Studio, but just didn't say so. Why is it that many people who post do not even give the basic information requested and required to help them? Can they not read?

Two, if the OP refers to Sony Vegas Pro 14 and later, one has to ask if the OP has a legitimate version before helping. The main portal for Vegas products is through Magix.com which redirects to https://www.vegascreativesoftware.com/us/ when a Vegas product is selected. Nowhere is Sony mentioned. As was pointed out in the thread that you are referring to, a user mentioned that there are pirated/cracked versions of recent "Sony Vegas." Thus someone posting that they have "Sony Vegas" v14 or later should first be requested to demonstrate that they do not have "Sony Vegas" but have a legitimate version of the program.

In the most recent thread about this, and in which you also repeated your comment, the OP mentioned "Sony Vegas 15" and was told that the program did not exist and to show the opening screen. He came back insisting that "I clearly specified that the program i'm using is Sony Vegas 15" and posted a screen shot but not of the opening screen. He was then further questioned by several people simply asking him to show his opening screen. He didn't, but replied "I didn't know that the developer of vegas is magix now. I thought it was still Sony. I'm not following the news." Then where did he buy the program, or did he? He has not come back for a couple of days now, so I think that the suspicions of him having a pirated version were correct, until proven otherwise.

I strongly feel that anyone who posts with "Sony Vegas" referring to v14 and later should automatically be questioned about the legitimacy of the software before receiving help. The onus is now on them to demonstrate that their software is legitimate.

Perhaps you can supply some friendly text that can be used to question these particular users about the legitimacy of their software, pointing out that there is no such program as "Sony Vegas" v14 and later.

@john-brown this has been pinned on the forum for two years now.

Sony Vegas vs. VEGAS

And would this kind of comment be friendly enough 🙂

There are still a lot of folks who refer to the Oakland Raiders instead of the L.A. Raiders, and it's been 38 years!

And they always get corrected, in much more forceful language than we are discussing here. It's reflexive verbal memory, nothing more sinister, but when there's $ involved, brand owners seem to get very touchy. Maybe seeing both sides of the issue will help to tone down the debate a bit, on both sides. "I say banana, You say banahna." Indeed.

That said, pirated branding rages against my core. Let us not argue two issues as if they were one.

I said I was done, but I can't help it...sometimes I can't keep my mouth shut...

I find it ironic that anyone would argue that brand doesn't matter. Especially in this case where the incorrect brand happens to be consistently one of the top known and trusted brands in the world. And one of the most strictly protected. I guarantee that they take this branding issue seriously. How seriously? Seriously enough that if we are proven to be misusing their brand, an army of lawyers may well be knocking on our doors. We have to make a strong effort to avoid any appearance of allowing or condoning the use of their brand (or any brand that is not ours). No one cares? That's naive.

You may not care about our brand, but if you care about our software and the general health of the company that brought that software back from the grave and now keeps it alive and thriving, then please make an effort to help us avoid the appearance of misusing a brand that isn't ours. And to the original point that spawned all of this, please do so politely.

Oh, and if you're using a cracked version, and that's why you see that other brand (as has been pointed out already), then stop it. That's not nice.

👍

I said I was done, but I can't help it...sometimes I can't keep my mouth shut...

😉😉😉 Sometimes I have the same and therefore a headmaster deleted twice my account here.

May I simply suggest that you add the S**y word to the forum censorship list and be done with it?

Don't replace it with asterisks, just ghost it.

@john-brown this has been pinned on the forum for two years now.

Sony Vegas vs. VEGAS

And would this kind of comment be friendly enough 🙂

@vkmast

The first link to Sony Vegas vs VEGAS is good but should also be a sticky on the Vegas Pro page as was suggested, even if most "Sony Vegas" posters don't see it or notice it. At least they can't say that it was hidden elsewhere.

The second link will probably not be understood by many users who are directed there. My pessimism tells me that most of these users will only read the first thread and not catch on; they won't get to the third thread and even if they do, won't catch on.

The sticky about Important information required to help you is the second one that needs to be used. However, some additional text or another sticky is required to really alert the user about clarifying the use of the word Sony for older versions, or now supplying evidence of a legitimate version for Magix versions (splashscreen) and acknowledgement that using the term "Sony Vegas" is incorrect, and all this without insulting the user. Maybe another sticky or an update to yours?

@gary-rebholz

As per a thread that I opened, there are still 2 or 3 new users who post about Vegas or Sony Vegas on the Magix.info forum. They are directed here and the thread is usually locked right away if the redirection is by a moderator. This is another place where a Vegas user can have an unfriendly experience. I occasionally look to see if the OP actually came here and posted, some do, some don't. We have tried to figure out why some new Vegas users post there rather than here. The only thing that I can think of is that there is no link to the Vegas Community on the Magix.com site so they click on MAGIX Community. I think that it would be helpful for Magix to add this.

As for branding, I do not see anywhere on https://www.vegascreativesoftware.com/us/ that mentions Magix except by scrolling to the bottom and taking note of the Copyright message or by clicking on "About Us" to see Magix mentioned. There is no link back to the Magix.com site either. I would have thought that Magix would like to promote its other products, like Music Maker, Samplitude, Xara, and a link or a button at the top with "Other Magix Products" would do this.

The decision not to link back to MAGIX is intentional. MAGIX is the parent company. VEGAS and VEGAS Creative Software are the brand. To use the car analogies that become so infamous, it's like a Chevrolet is referred to as a "Chevrolet" instead of a "General Motors Chevrolet" even though General Motors owns the Chevrolet company. If you go to the Chevrolet website you don't see much (if anything) about GM unless you look at the legal stuff and links at the bottom.

Just call it VEGAS, and the company that makes it VEGAS Creative Software.

You're right that we could be doing a better job of directing people who accidentally end up on the MAGIX site to the VEGAS Creative Software site. We're working with the MAGIX team on solving that.

@john-brown thanks for your suggestions. Appreciated and duly noted.

@gary-rebholz

Hmmm. Bad analogy Gary, GM went bankrupt (and has come back). GM has a competing product line of vehicles. Unlike GM, Magix produces and sells many products other than video editors, albeit there are competing products. If GM also made trailers, I would expect the trailers site to have a link to the vehicles sites and vice versa. If you want a video editor, you might also want a graphics/web designer program (Xara) and a DAW (Samplitude). My main point was not to call Vegas, "Magix Vegas" or any other of the other products by prefacing the product with the name Magix, just to have a link back to Magix products leading to, one would assume, increased sales of all Magix products.

The secondary point is that by not mentioning Magix a little more visibly, users of older versions of Vegas may think that it is still Sony and refer to it as such.

But, your branding point is taken.

A suggestion for the Magix.info site would be to have a link back to the Vegas Forum:

The only problem with this is that it could only be on the English and German parts unless you opened the Vegas forum to the same languages as Magix.info.

@vkmast

Just saw your new sticky. That should help.

Thanks,

As to owners, they will come and go. There was a time pre Sony for VP. Gary can outline the History.

And yer know what? What happens in VEGAS stays in VEGAS. And as per Elvis - “Thank yuh very much!”

@Musicvid - I just want the RAIDERS to win! Silver and Black has gotta be a winning Brand 😎.

My four cardinal rules of Education (directed at no one in particular)

• I will not judge
• I will not rescue
• I will not enable
• I must never abandon

I like those rules!

I'd also appreciate it if certain members would be less passive aggressive toward the use of people's use of "Sony" when asking for help. Sony developed the software for far longer than Magix has and some people are still using a Sony version when asking for help evaluating a newer version. It's natural for them to use the old name.

Heck, in my mind it's still SonicFoundry. I used it under that brand name for far longer than both Sony and Magix combined.

I don't think anyone will mind very much if you call it "Sonic Foundry Vegas," as long as you check in with your old friends once in a while, Kelly!

+1