5.1 surround problems

musicvid10 wrote on 9/4/2012, 10:40 AM

(Response duplicated in DVDA forum)

This is a known bug in the AC3 Studio encoder. Sony has known about it for years, and has never responded to repeated support requests to fix it. The audio preview in DVD Architect is stereo, and the bug only shows up with the AC3 Studio encoder.

If you have DVD Architect Pro, then you must have Sony Vegas Pro, correct?
Use the Dolby Digital Pro AC3 encoder, and all should be well.

There is a separate set of recommendations for getting WYHIWYG in DD Pro, that can be found here:
http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/forums/ShowMessage.asp?ForumID=22&MessageID=763261

trojanrobmc wrote on 9/4/2012, 11:29 AM

Thanks for the response.

I'm using an older version of DVD Architect Pro 5.0--basically because I don't want to completely re-do many of my projects in the newer version of DVD Architect that I have. But for my Vegas editing, I use Studio HD Platinum 11.

If I understand you correctly, the problem is in Vegas Studio, when it is rendering a 5.1 surround file to AC3. Is that correct? But Vegas Pro doesn't have this problem?

So my only option is to use Vegas Pro then...and it's an older version that won't open all of my current Vegas Studio projects. So I'm basically stuck then, unless I buy the new Vegas Pro version, right?

Markk655 wrote on 9/4/2012, 11:34 AM

On a related topic, does the audio have the same issue if you open it up in the trimmer too?

I know early AVCHD camcorders (I have Panasonic HD1) weren't imported correctly (and still aren't). As musicvid pointed out, the bug has been reported, but nothing has been modified.

I guess my question is whether it is a problem with the encoding AND decoding.

trojanrobmc wrote on 9/4/2012, 12:24 PM

The camera is a 2012 Sony AVCHD Handycam. When I open up files in the trimmer (which is two channel), the right side is a lot louder. But when I drag that down onto the timeline, and it's set to 5.1 surround mode, everything is corrected.

musicvid10 wrote on 9/4/2012, 1:00 PM

AC3 Studio has the problem.
AC3 Pro does NOT have the problem.
I don't think Movie Studio has AC3 Pro.
AC3 Studio 5.1 will not work with BluRay.

The DVD Architect Studio version bundled with VMS does not support 5.1 AC3 for BluRay either, afaik.
I don't know how you ended up with VMS and DVDA Pro together, because that's not how they're bundled. But I believe an upgrade to VMS Platinum 12 or Vegas Pro is your apparent solution.

trojanrobmc wrote on 9/4/2012, 2:43 PM

I've installed both Vegas Pro 11 and DVD Architect 5.2, and I still don't have the option to render as a Dolby Digital ac3 Pro file. The only option there is Studio. I've read about other people having similar problems, and no apparent solution.

Thanks for your continued help.

vkmast wrote on 9/4/2012, 3:13 PM

https://www.custcenter.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/4557/kw/4557
The Pro AC-3 encoder will not work in the trial of DVD Architect Pro.

Markk655 wrote on 9/4/2012, 8:41 PM

Re: trimmer and timeline...Me too. I thought that it was just my early AVCHD camcorder format. Guess not. Sorry to hear about that.

Newuser2 wrote on 9/5/2012, 4:56 AM

I'm a relative newbie to Sony VMS v11, but I do recall reading (online help) that surround sound isn't supported - so project audio setting must be set to 'stereo'. I did this and the result is not too bad in my first project (at least it's better than 'mono!)

Steve Grisetti wrote on 9/5/2012, 7:30 AM

No, you can certainly edit 5.1 audio in Vegas Movie Studio. You just can't use 5.1 audio on a BluRay with DVD Architect Studio.

Newuser2 wrote on 9/5/2012, 7:41 AM

Yes, my mistake - I did successfully create a BluRay disc.

trojanrobmc wrote on 9/5/2012, 6:02 PM

The sad thing is that you have to upgrade and spend a lot more money to get Vegas Pro if you want 5.1 AC3 audio to be rendered correctly. Lots of problems with the Studio version.

musicvid10 wrote on 9/5/2012, 8:45 PM

Perhaps I wasn't clear: An upgrade to Vegas Pro (to use with DVD Architect Pro) is one option.

I am also under the impression you can create a BluRay with menus and 5.1 sound from the Vegas Movie Studio 12 timeline. Can someone confirm?

vkmast wrote on 9/6/2012, 2:46 AM

musicvid,
this text is from MSP 12 Help
The Blu-ray Disc with Menus setting is not available when working with 5.1 surround projects. You can use the Blu-ray Disc setting to burn a 5.1 surround project from the timeline. If you want to use DVD Architect Studio to author a Blu-ray Disc with menus, please use the Audio tab in the Movie Studio Project Properties dialog to set your project's Master bus mode to Stereo.
The same text appears in VMSP 11 Help.

musicvid10 wrote on 9/6/2012, 9:35 AM

Thanks for clearing that up.
;?)

dpaterson wrote on 6/9/2017, 9:37 AM

I posted in the DVD Architect forum, but I don't know if this is actually a problem with Vegas or DVD Architect Pro.

Here's the deal: I shoot movies with a Sony Handycam in 5.1 surround mode. When I open the files in Sony Vegas, in 5.1 surround mode, the sound is "balanced" and good. But when I render the video file--in Sony AVC .m2ts mode, with 5.1 surround--the sound is heavily balanced to the right-hand side, meaning the left side volume is a lot lower than the right. For awhile, I thought all I needed was a decoder to handle this issue when I played back the files on my PC. And so I downloaded one, and all was right with the world.

But...

When I go to make a project in DVD Architect Pro, and I've imported these video files into my project, the audio is once again heavily unbalanced to the right side. My project is set as a 5.1 project, but for some reason, the timeline in the DVD Architect Pro only shows two channels, one heavily unbalanced to the right. Is this correct? Do I need to see all 5.1 channels in the timeline on DVD Architect, just like I see on Vegas? Or is my problem elsewhere?

I just want to be able to burn a bluray with "balanced" 5.1 audio. Thanks for your help...

Hi.

I realize this is an old thread but can anyone confirm if this is / is still an issue (I am using Vegas Pro 14 and DVDA 7 both updated to the latest versions)???

I ask because I noticed this just yesterday and it's driving me nuts. I initially thought it was my camera (just purchased it i.e. a Canon Legria HF G40 with 5.1 Surround Mic.) so now, today, have got Canon "scratching their heads" but then I found this thread. Bottom line is: in Vegas there is no problem i.e. all the channels are pulled onto the right tracks and all seems / sounds fine. But when the files are pulled into DVDA (only stereo track available) then I also have this issue where the right channel's audio is more pronounced than the left channel and this can be seen on the waveform quite clearly. Of greater concern: it's evident on the Blu-ray disks that I've burned (if it were just the preview in DVDA then I'd not really be concerned).

Regards,

Dale.

Musicvid wrote on 6/9/2017, 7:48 PM

My guess is that you turned off 90 phase shift in Dolby Pro settings. This causes the bug to re-appear.

dpaterson wrote on 6/10/2017, 3:54 AM

Hi Musicvid.

Well: if I was FORTUNATE enough to actually HAVE Dolby PRO in Vegas Pro 14 then I may or may not have turned it off!!! LOL!!! Nah. Apparently this is an issue in DVDA 7 (downmixing AC3 STUDIO files to stereo) (and not doing a good job of it either I might add). See this post (as another kind forum member pointed out to me): https://www.vegascreativesoftware.info/us/forum/vegas-pro-14-update-5-build-244--106178/#ca662052

Regards,

Dale.

Musicvid wrote on 7/9/2017, 5:10 PM

Let's be clear. Dvda Studio still has the bug AFAIK. Causes l/r imbalance on the dvda preview timeline. Been that way forever. AC3 Studio is noncompliant, probably on purpose, because it's an entry level product and has never worked right for BluRay.

AC3 Pro eliminates the problem, but the bug can be mimicked by turning off the pl phase shift.

So, AC3 Pro with phase shift "on" is the only way I know to make a 5.1 BluRay in Architect, other than rendering a PCM Multichannel audio stream, which you may actually like better.

I have seen nothing in your description that implicates DVDA Studio 7 as the sole culprit. Quite simply put, it's always been that way. A search will reveal discussions going back to 2008-2009 involving very similar issues.

dpaterson wrote on 7/10/2017, 3:22 AM

Hi Musicvid.

Thanks for the input.

You are correct on all. And as I keep saying: the "fix" is so simple i.e. simply supply Dolby Pro with Vegas 14 / DVDA 7 and problem solved (and I'm even prepared to pay for it but MAGIX just don't seem to want to budge on this).

Now you do make a good point i.e. it would probably be PREFERABLE to render PCM multichannel audio streams BUT unless I'm doing something terribly wrong DVDA does not recognise these files (well: it will not open any of the Sony WAV64 or other WAV 5.1 files rendered from Vegas anyway). Maybe a quick tutorial from you on this??? If you're talking about rendering out TOTALLY seperate files for each channel then how do you a) get these into DVDA and b) how does DVDA know which channels are which (assuming that you simply drag each file onto the timeline in DVDA)??? Also: does this create a "proper" (compliant) 5.1 Surround Sound Blu-ray disk??? I know about the DVDA preview issue and I can live with it (have done forever as you say). But it really does cheese me off that the Dolby Pro encoder has been done away with. Anyway and as I said: if possible a quick tutorial from you would be great. Thanks.

Regards,

Dale.

Musicvid wrote on 7/10/2017, 11:14 AM

My best guess is it is a licensing issue, which means either it will or will not be resolved. How's that for a commit?

Tbh, I haven't actually tried multichannel pcm in Architect Studio yet. Yes, it is a compliant DVD audio format. Stay tuned.

dpaterson wrote on 7/10/2017, 12:39 PM

Hello again.

"Stay tuned" (I will and in 5.1 Dolby Surround too!!! LOL!!!).

Well here's another issue that cheeses me off (I'm sounding like a stuck record I know):

If DVDA 7 recognised THE VERY SAME FILES that Vegas 14 renders out i.e. if DVDA 7 recognised the Sony WAV64 5.1 Surround files that Vegas 14 renders out well then we'd not be having this conversation now would we!!! I mean: does it make sense that Vegas can render out files that DVDA 7 cannot and will not recognise??? Were it not for this: licencing issue or not we would not have an issue and could use Sony WAV64 or the other WAV 5.1 files in DVDA 7 and burn compliant Blu-ray with 5.1 surround no problem.

Regards,

Dale.

Musicvid wrote on 7/11/2017, 3:58 PM

Dale, the idea is to render compliant files for DVD/Blu-ray that do not get re-encoded in Architect. Those include ac3, wav, and mpeg layer II at the bottom of the list.

W64, a Sony proprietary codec, never made it onto that list. So even if DVDA 7 opened it, Architect would render again to a compliant format.

If you want to beat me to it, render a 6ch multichannel PCM, 16/48 in Vegas and try it in Architect Studio. Sorry in advance if that route is already blocked. Magix has taken enough heat over this that I sense they will get it sorted soon, politics notwithstanding.