Project + rendering settings for AVCHD to DVD -Vegas and DVD Architect

OldSmoke wrote on 12/21/2018, 11:37 AM

I assume the 1440x1080 25i is 16:9 with appropriate pixel aspect ratio and not 4:3?

Here is what I did in the past with HDV footage and DVD output. I set the project properties to 50p (double PAL), resampling to "Interpolate" and make sure resampling is on for all video events. If the image is noisy, I apply NeatVideo on the video bus. I also apply a sharpening with a combination of "unsharp mask" and "convolution kernel" (found the settings here in the forum). Once done, I render a video only file using the DVD Architect PAL Wide template and an AC3 audio file with AC3Pro encoder. In DVD Architect, you only should have to add the video file to the project and DVDA will add automatically the AC3Pro audio file. This procedure will ensure that DVDA will not re-render the files.

At a later stage, I found that NeatVideo does work better if I first render an intermediate file, I used XAVC-I 50 (MFX) for that, reimport the file into a new project and only then apply NeatVideo to the Video Bus. At this stage there no difference rendering straight for DVDA as described above or make another de-noised intermediate.

Musicvid wrote on 12/21/2018, 11:46 AM

The official tutorial is here:

https://www.vegascreativesoftware.info/us/tutorials/basic-training-for-dvd-architect--106103/

Musicvid wrote on 12/21/2018, 1:01 PM

Dither?

vkmast wrote on 12/21/2018, 1:09 PM

I am using Vegas pro 16 and the latest version of DVD Architect.

use the Dolby Digital ac3 Pro

As you know, DD AC-3 Pro was dropped by Magix. "Dolby Digital AC-3 Studio" is listed in "Render as" formats.

diverG wrote on 12/21/2018, 1:11 PM

J F.

The OP stated 25i which suggest PAL land. OldSmoke's instructions are correct.

OldSmoke wrote on 12/21/2018, 2:13 PM

J F.

The OP stated 25i which suggest PAL land. OldSmoke's instructions are correct.

The reason I set the project settings to double the frame rate and progressive is that rendering and downsizing to interlaced gives better results from a progressive file and yes, the settings I mentioned to affect the render, even the deinterlace method.

Marco. wrote on 12/21/2018, 2:25 PM

Frame rate and field order setting of the project properties does not affect rendering (while deinterlace method does). The upper part of project properties affect preview only.

OldSmoke wrote on 12/21/2018, 2:49 PM

Frame rate and field order setting of the project properties does not affect rendering (while deinterlace method does). The upper part of project properties affect preview only.

Somehow these are related. if I don't set the project to double framerate and progressive, the de-interlace method would not "kick in", but this is just from my memory because I record in progressive exclusively.

@Former user Would you know which of the other codecs don't require re-compression in DVDA? Now that AC3 Pro is gone, its time to look for an alternative.

Marco. wrote on 12/21/2018, 3:13 PM

During the render process the upper project properties are driven by the render settings, so it definitely makes no difference. I tested this many times.

Former user wrote on 12/21/2018, 3:19 PM

@Former user Would you know which of the other codecs don't require re-compression in DVDA? Now that AC3 Pro is gone, its time to look for an alternative.

I am not Joelson-Forte, but standard DVD audio only accepts two codecs, either AC3 or PCM. Any other will need to be re-compressed by DVDA.

OldSmoke wrote on 12/21/2018, 3:24 PM

@Former user Would you know which of the other codecs don't require re-compression in DVDA? Now that AC3 Pro is gone, its time to look for an alternative.

I am not Joelson-Forte, but standard DVD audio only accepts two codecs, either AC3 or PCM. Any other will need to be re-compressed by DVDA.

Great! Thx!

OldSmoke wrote on 12/21/2018, 3:25 PM

During the render process the upper project properties are driven by the render settings, so it definitely makes no difference. I tested this many times.

So if I leave the project properties as interlaced, does Vegas now resize from an interlaced frame or a progressive?

Marco. wrote on 12/21/2018, 3:44 PM

"So if I leave the project properties as interlaced, does Vegas now resize from an interlaced frame or a progressive?"

The way frames/fields are processed only depends on the deinterlace method selected in project properties.

OldSmoke wrote on 12/21/2018, 3:54 PM

"So if I leave the project properties as interlaced, does Vegas now resize from an interlaced frame or a progressive?"

The way frames/fields are processed only depends on the deinterlace method selected in project properties.

That didn't fully answer my question. If I set the deinterlace method to "Interpolate", does Vegas now create a frames from the two interlaced frames (upper and lower), which is what interpolation should mean or make on from frame from two interlaced frames and interpolate the between the "jagged edges"; which would be more like 25p in the OP's case.

Davo_whitey wrote on 12/21/2018, 6:59 PM

I assume the 1440x1080 25i is 16:9 with appropriate pixel aspect ratio and not 4:3?

Here is what I did in the past with HDV footage and DVD output. I set the project properties to 50p (double PAL), resampling to "Interpolate" and make sure resampling is on for all video events. If the image is noisy, I apply NeatVideo on the video bus. I also apply a sharpening with a combination of "unsharp mask" and "convolution kernel" (found the settings here in the forum). Once done, I render a video only file using the DVD Architect PAL Wide template and an AC3 audio file with AC3Pro encoder. In DVD Architect, you only should have to add the video file to the project and DVDA will add automatically the AC3Pro audio file. This procedure will ensure that DVDA will not re-render the files.

At a later stage, I found that NeatVideo das work better if I first render and intermediate file, I used XAVC-I 50 (MFX) for that, reimport the file into a new project and only then apply NeatVideo to the Video Bus. At this stage there no difference rendering straight for DVDA as described above or make another de-noised intermediate.

Yes that is correct, it is 16:9 with appropriate pixel ratio.

I did find on all my testing that interpolating fields did seem to give the best results but the movements on screen still seemed jerky to me.

I will run some tests again trying these settings today.

Former user wrote on 12/21/2018, 8:11 PM

@Davo_whitey

I think the "25i" video file you're talking about is actually an HD video file (1440x1080 50i 25 fps). The correct would be to say that it is a 50i video file because each of the 25 frames per second in it has two fields (upper and lower) giving a total of 50 interlaced fields per second of video or 50i.

I'm sorry if I'm wrong, but the way I understand the (i) interlacing is that way.

You can kindly send one of the original files so we can analyze it better. Preferably a very short one with only a few seconds.

Once we're sure of your video settings we can tell you the best setting to use in Vegas and Dvd Architect.

Davo_whitey wrote on 12/21/2018, 8:26 PM

@Davo_whitey

I think the "25i" video file you're talking about is actually an HD video file (1440x1080 50i 25 fps). The correct would be to say that it is a 50i video file because each of the 25 frames per second in it has two fields (upper and lower) giving a total of 50 interlaced fields per second of video or 50i.

I'm sorry if I'm wrong, but the way I understand the (i) interlacing is that way.

You can kindly send one of the original files so we can analyze it better. Preferably a very short one with only a few seconds.

Once we're sure of your video settings we can tell you the best setting to use in Vegas and Dvd Architect.

Here is a link to download the one of the short files

https://www.dropbox.com/s/man6oq1vv6q4lnd/00007.MTS?dl=0

Former user wrote on 12/21/2018, 8:52 PM

@Davo_whitey

It was exactly what I thought. I'm sending you a video with the procedure and settings in Vegas and Dvd Architect. I hope everything works out!

Davo_whitey wrote on 12/21/2018, 9:01 PM

@Davo_whitey

It was exactly what I thought. I'm sending you a video with the procedure and settings in Vegas and Dvd Architect. I hope everything works out!

Thank you for the video.

Just confirming that blend fields is the correct deinterlace method?

Also with the resampling mode I have always been told to disable resample, but i noticed you have left it on smart resample. Is that the best option for this type of project?

OldSmoke wrote on 12/21/2018, 9:04 PM

I converted your file using my settings. The original has already a lot of jagged lines, the road markings, which just as good as HDV can record. If your camera can do 1280x720 50p, that would be much better for fast moving scenes.

Edit: here are the two FX to help with the jagged edges of HDV 50i.

I cant credit for these two, I got from a user here on the forum.

Former user wrote on 12/21/2018, 9:18 PM

Just confirming that blend fields is the correct deinterlace method?

For Dvd (Pal) 720x576 it is not necessary to deinterlace because the Dvd Architect standard is interlaced.

Also with the resampling mode I have always been told to disable resample, but i noticed you have left it on smart resample. Is that the best option for this type of project?

In particular, I only deactivate the resample of Vegas when for some reason I have to change the frame rate of my project or when I use some effect that changes the frame rate like Slow Motion for example. In other cases I usually leave it enabled.

Davo_whitey wrote on 12/21/2018, 9:19 PM

I converted your file using my settings. The original has already a lot of jagged lines, the road markings, which just as good as HDV can record. If your camera can do 1280x720 50p, that would be much better for fast moving scenes.

Edit: here are the two FX to help with the jagged edges of HDV 50i.

I cant credit for these two, I got from a user here on the forum.

thanks.

Yeah this is a clients camera so it is all they can give me

It is annoying because on playing back the clips on pc vlc player etc and the vegas preview all the lines are nice and crisp and straight.

I hate avchd, its annoying to work with

Davo_whitey wrote on 12/21/2018, 9:28 PM

Just confirming that blend fields is the correct deinterlace method?

For Dvd (Pal) 720x576 it is not necessary to deinterlace because the Dvd Architect standard is interlaced.

Also with the resampling mode I have always been told to disable resample, but i noticed you have left it on smart resample. Is that the best option for this type of project?

In particular, I only deactivate the resample of Vegas when for some reason I have to change the frame rate of my project or when I use some effect that changes the frame rate like Slow Motion for example. In other cases I usually leave it enabled.

Ok thanks for information.

I wasnt sure if a deinterlace was required because avchd is upperfield first whereas dvd is lower first.

Im trying to get the best quality smooth image i can.

Former user wrote on 12/21/2018, 9:30 PM

@OldSmoke

To reduce flicker in lines I usually use the Reduce Interlace Flicker option. Of course the cost of a little loss in the definition.