Comments

gary-rebholz wrote on 10/17/2017, 3:15 PM

I'm sorry for my silence on this, but I wanted to make sure I have my facts straight before saying anything. This thread brings up several issues and lots of misunderstanding, so I'm hoping to clear that up now.

To make a long story short, you need to allow VEGAS to phone home in order to register your copy upon first use. And then you never have to allow a phone home ever again unless you want to use one of the codecs that require further registration. You bought the software and it's yours to use however and wherever you want to use it. We don't ever disable or crash your software because you can't or don't want to allow the successful phone home.

Now, if you want to wade through a more detailed explanation, here you go...VEGAS (both Pro and Movie Studio) do indeed "phone home" under these circumstances:

  • When you first start the application so that you can register your software
  • The first time you use certain codecs. We require this because we have to pay a license fee for those codecs. If we don't force registration when you actually use them the first time, then we would have to pay the fee for every copy of VEGAS sold. By requiring separate registration for these codecs, we only pay for the codecs that you actually use. This has had a huge impact on controlling the COGS for VEGAS, and getting that under control has played an important role in our ability to hold the retail price of the software steady at the level of the previous owner's last version.
  • Every two weeks after your initial registration, VEGAS will attempt to phone home to verify that your software is still properly registered

A couple of issues have arisen in this thread:

  • I work offline and I don't want my machine online, or can't put it online because I'm in the field. This is not a problem. VEGAS tries to phone home. If it can't make a connection, the attempt fails quietly and you are not affected in any way. VEGAS will just try to phone home again the next time you start the application, and it will either continually fail if you're disconnected, or succeed if you've reconnected. Either way, the process is silent to the user. In other words, once you have completed the original registration, you can use your copy of VEGAS forever without ever successfully phoning home (with the exception of the codecs mentioned above)
  • VEGAS is purposely crashing because I won't allow it to phone home. This is quite simply not true. There is no case in which we intentionally crash a properly registered copy of VEGAS. If you experience a crash, you should contact our customer support with that issue so we can help you solve it.
  • If VEGAS is phoning home regularly, then this is a clear violation of the EULA. This, again, is not true. Please check Section 4 of the EULA.
  • I was forced to register my codecs again when I installed an update. With the recent VP15 Update 1, it appears that this might have happened to some users, but that is an unusual occurrence. Once you've registered your codecs, you shouldn't normally have to do so again until the next major version release you upgrade to (e.g, VP14 to VP15). If you know you'll be working off line, it might be wise to add your commonly used file types to the timeline of a sample project while you have an internet connection just to make sure the codecs are properly registered.

I think that covers the main discussion points in this thread.

Grazie wrote on 10/17/2017, 3:35 PM

Thank you Gary.

Former users wrote on 10/17/2017, 4:29 PM

Thanks for the clarification, Gary.

Kit-As-Was wrote on 10/17/2017, 6:14 PM

Dear Gary, thanks for your post outlining the theory of how the system is supposed to work. My actual experience with Vegas 14 has been different and I have some outstanding questions.

May we have a complete list of all the codecs that require separate registration? Nick Hope mentioned on 10/8/2017 a list of 6 codecs that require separation registering:

  • Intel HEVC/MAGIX ProRes
  • Magix AVC/AAC MP4
  • MainConcept MPEG-2
  • MP3 Audio
  • AAC Audio
  • Dolby Digital AC-3 Studio

Does this list apply to Vegas 14? Are there any other codecs that require registration for version 14 and 15? Thanks.

Why is Vegas phoning home every two weeks? What kind of data does it try to send? How can this behaviour really counter piracy? I think this behaviour is the cause of the trouble I and Peter have been experiencing. Are usage statistics being sent? I contacted support about the issue more than once and the only response I got was:

We have reset your serial and you may now re-activate the product to continue
using the license.

Support effectively denied to me that Vegas tries to phone home. Why the secrecy? I still find the issue troubling. I'd like to see the Eula and product notes rewritten to outline when Vegas requires to phone home and when it tries to phone home. I don't think Magix as a company have been up front about this. I also think you made a mistake in your explanation unless Vegas 15's behaviour is different from Vegas 14. Doesn't Vegas 15 require re-activation after every update? This is the case with Vegas 14. It won't launch until it is activated after an update.

I don't have a major problem with Vegas requiring re-activation after an update and requiring separate registration for codecs is something that Sony used to do (eg Sound Forge and mp3). Rather than trying to do that in the background the product should walk the user through codec registration clearly. That could even be a marketing opportunity - this codec requires registration because we are committed to keeping the costs as low as possible. But please consider removing the additional phoning home unless the user has an option to switch it off. If Vegas is a professional piece of software it needs to work in a professional way. Currently I feel that is not happening which is why I have hesitated to upgrade to Vegas 15 (user since version 6). Thanks for reading.

 

Wolfgang S. wrote on 10/17/2017, 9:08 PM

@Kit-As-Was

That seems to be more ideological statement then a specific question. Sorry if you feel not happy - but I think they will not consider to remove anything.

And it is quite clear that the activation of the codec on a case-by-case base reduces licencing costs, because everyone would activate all the codecs if he would be asked by the software what he will need in the beginning. So that has to work as it works now to reduce COGS.

Since there has always been a huge amount of illegal versions it is fine for me as user if Vegas calls home every second week, especially if there is no consequence now any more for the user if such a call is not successfull.

So it is as it is, and as said I understand that this will not be changed for good reasons.

Kinvermark wrote on 10/17/2017, 9:18 PM

+1. Let's not draw the pirates a treasure map and then hand them a set of keys too.

Nick Hope wrote on 10/17/2017, 9:38 PM
I don't have a major problem with Vegas requiring re-activation after an update and requiring separate registration for codecs is something that Sony used to do (eg Sound Forge and mp3). Rather than trying to do that in the background the product should walk the user through codec registration clearly.

Additional activation of codecs is not done in the background. A grey Magix window pops up in front of Vegas and if you're online and everything works, it just happens. There is no need for a any walk-through.

Kit-As-Was wrote on 10/17/2017, 11:50 PM

Additional activation of codecs is not done in the background. A grey Magix window pops up in front of Vegas and if you're online and everything works, it just happens. There is no need for a any walk-through.

Thanks Nick, that is good to know. I've never seen any grey pop-up window with Vegas 14, though. Does that have the same issue with codecs?

Kit-As-Was wrote on 10/17/2017, 11:56 PM

@Kit-As-Was

That seems to be more ideological statement then a specific question. Sorry if you feel not happy - but I think they will not consider to remove anything.


Please elaborate what you think ideological about my post. Note, I'm not against separate registration for codecs. Why do you think that phoning home every second week will have any effect on pirated copies?

Grazie wrote on 10/18/2017, 12:08 AM

Ahem, do we know if "other" NLEs also do this phoning-home procedure? I'm guessing they do? But we need acquire evidence-based proof/results.

I've got heaps of FXs with 3rd Party companies. I know for certain that one of them has a frantic need to call mamma. Now, if I were to chop the cable, would I be left in limbo?

Nick Hope wrote on 10/18/2017, 12:35 AM

Additional activation of codecs is not done in the background. A grey Magix window pops up in front of Vegas and if you're online and everything works, it just happens. There is no need for a any walk-through.

Thanks Nick, that is good to know. I've never seen any grey pop-up window with Vegas 14, though. Does that have the same issue with codecs?

Same deal with VP14 and VP15 in my experience. When a codec has done its additional activation you see this sort of window:

If a connection cannot be made you see this sort of window:

Those were captured in September 2016 with VP14. I don't know if those windows are exactly the same now, but I recall them being similar when I did the codec activation for VP15.

bob-h wrote on 10/18/2017, 5:57 AM

Ahem, do we know if "other" NLEs also do this phoning-home procedure? I'm guessing they do? But we need acquire evidence-based proof/results.

Adobe Creative Cloud is prob the most well known for phoning home. It needs the internet for activation & phoning home to keep checking validity of product. It is a subscription product paid monthly or annually so ofcourse it needs to do this. When you stop paying your software stops working.

It is a different business model to Vegas, you buy Vegas outright so phoning home is really just about preventing your serial being installed on more than 2 computers. If it detected 3 or more installations it would likely deactivate the serial & software on all computers.

Wolfgang S. wrote on 10/18/2017, 9:06 AM

Gary has said quite clear that you find that in the section 4 of the EULA, and he is right about that.

http://www.vegascreativesoftware.com/us/eula/professional/

4. License verification

Individual MAGIX Product licenses have to be validated periodically. This ensures that the original Software is being used and that it is being used according to the license terms and conditions. This requires an Internet Connection.

Fact is that you are allowed to run the Software only if you accept the EULA. And the EULA is definied by the owner of the Software - that is his right to license the Software under the conditions that are appropriate for him.

If you come to the conclusion that you cannot accept the EULA any more - ok fine that is up to you. But then you would have to deinstall the software.

But to run a discussion AFTER you have accepted the EULA if the EULA will act against piracy or if it is appropriate to do so - sorry, that is an ideological discussion that is not part of the deal.

 

vkmast wrote on 10/18/2017, 9:39 AM

I think for most of us the confusion started here: The previous generation of MAGIX applications required online verification monthly, however, the current MAGIX apps do not require the user to be online after installation. Now we know. It only took a year to clarify.

Kit-As-Was wrote on 10/18/2017, 5:33 PM

I bought Vegas 14 on the basis of what MAGIX_Eric D wrote in the "I hope Vegas is NOT going down this path!"

In 2015 the MAGIX activation requirements changed, and while initial activation does require internet access, users are no longer obligated to be online once per month for license validation. The requirement to be online once per month is still communicated on the MAGIX web site as people are still using versions of the software which did use that system.

The only time internet access is required is for the initial activation. The only time you would be required to access the internet again is if you reinstall the program.

Now we have Gary telling us something similar but as Wolfgang points out the Eula says:

Individual MAGIX Product licenses have to be validated periodically.

Unfortunately this directly contradicts what Gary claims. The miserable bottom line is that Vegas requires to phone home and the Eula insists we accept it. I personally feel duped and disappointed. I was excited when I heard that Magix would continue to develop Vegas but not any more. The Eula puts Magix in the same camp as Adobe. That's a shame,

Musicvid wrote on 10/18/2017, 10:46 PM

The Eula puts Magix in the same camp as Adobe.

That's a complete and deliberate falsehood Kit.

Magix rejected a subscription model, and for reasons that were clearly stated.

Cut the drama now, because this big play for attention just isn't working for you.

'Nuff said.

Kinvermark wrote on 10/18/2017, 11:56 PM

+1.

Kit-As-Was wrote on 10/19/2017, 5:08 PM

The Eula puts Magix in the same camp as Adobe.

That's a complete and deliberate falsehood Kit.

Magix rejected a subscription model, and for reasons that were clearly stated.

Cut the drama now, because this big play for attention just isn't working for you.

'Nuff said.


MusicVid you misinterpreted my meaning. I never said anything about a subscription model, though it wouldn't be a complete surprise if Magix moved in the direction of Corel and had both a subscription model and a "purchase offer". I don't understand why more people aren't concerned about this, Magix now have a system that requires periodic connection to the internet after stating that they wouldn't. That's more like a complete and deliberate falsehood. But I think Magix just cut corners and used the validation system they already had. They just failed to come clean about it. The Eula requires the user to surrender the right to keep offline. My practical experience has been that the software stopped working because Vegas couldn't connect to the internet. When I reached out to support their response was to"reset" the "serial". I was forced to reactivate a product that I had already registered. Magix are in the same camp as Adobe and Corel that make connection to the internet a condition of using the software. I hope that makes my meaning clear. Regards.

Musicvid wrote on 10/19/2017, 7:28 PM

So get yourself a lawyer.

Nick Hope wrote on 10/19/2017, 9:14 PM
...I don't understand why more people aren't concerned about this...

Maybe everyone else is too busy getting on with life.

...Magix now have a system that requires periodic connection to the internet...

Not really a requirement, because "If it can't make a connection, the attempt fails quietly and you are not affected in any way." If you believe it is affecting Vegas' function for you, then it's not working correctly and you should pursue your issue with Support.

...That's more like a complete and deliberate falsehood...

More likely due to a misunderstanding between Madison and Germany in the early days of Magix' ownership of Vegas.

Musicvid wrote on 10/19/2017, 9:30 PM

Oh, the drama.

Not necessarily good drama, but...

OldSmoke wrote on 10/19/2017, 10:35 PM

More likely due to a misunderstanding between Madison and Germany in the early days of Magix' ownership of Vegas.

Oh... I think we have seen that before.

Proud owner of Sony Vegas Pro 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 & 13 and now Magix VP15&16.

System Spec.:
Motherboard: Intel DX79SR
Ram: G.Skill 8x4GB DDR3 2133 (running at 1600 and lower latency)
CPU: 3930K @ 4.3GHz (custom water cooling system)
GPU: 1x ASUS Fury-X
Hard drives: 4x 2GB WD Red in RAID 5 (with Hot Spare), 2x Crucial 256GB SSD in RAID 0 (mulitcam project drive), 1x Samsung 850 Pro 256GB SSD (System), 1x Crucial 64GB SSD (temp files and swap file), 1x 3.5" Hotswap Bay, 1x LG BluRay Burner
PSU: Corsair 1200W
Monitor: 2x Dell Ultrasharp U2713HM, 1x Sony HDTV 32" preview monitor

Kit-As-Was wrote on 10/21/2017, 8:00 PM
 

...Magix now have a system that requires periodic connection to the internet...

Not really a requirement, because "If it can't make a connection, the attempt fails quietly and you are not affected in any way." If you believe it is affecting Vegas' function for you, then it's not working correctly and you should pursue your issue with Support.

So in the middle of working this morning Vegas 14 tells me it's not licensed again.

I will contact support again but they have not done anything concrete to solve this problem in the past.. Perhaps Vegas 15 fails quietly and Vegas 14 doesn't. Can anyone confirm that? Thanks.

Kinvermark wrote on 10/21/2017, 8:13 PM

That seems like a really cryptic message. What were you doing when it occurred? Editing, rendering, saving a project...?

Is it possible that this is a codec message? (ie not vegas) What media types are on your timeline?