Looking for new software

Ghost-rider wrote on 6/3/2019, 8:28 PM

Hello new to the forum. I am a old user of Vegas and Sound Forge from way back. I am looking for new semi-professional video editing software. I finally got tired of looking for more consumer based products and thought maybe Vegas will work for me.

Here's what I am looking to do. I record Gopro mountainbike videos as long as 4 hours long. Right now I record them in 1080 at 60fps. I want to be able to create a menu from a still shot from the video and drop chapter point that can be skipped forward as well as list in the menu. I also want to be able to have 2 or more audio tracks. One being the actual audio recorded by the Gopro and the other a music track and add in. I would want to be able to choose what audio format each track would be, say the primary Gopr audio could be DD/AC3 and the the music 24/96 wav or flac.

The last thing being that most my videos will be longer than 1:15 hours and producing a BD movie disc will likely be much larger than 23g I want to be able to use a free program BDRB to shink the final disc to fit on a BD25 disc.

Comments

EricLNZ wrote on 6/3/2019, 9:41 PM

1:15 hours will easily fit on a BD25 disc at a very decent bitrate. Using 25Mb average bitrate 2 hours should fit. So you shouldn't need to "shrink" which will degrade as BDRB will need to re-render to reduce the bitrate.

Suggest you download a 30 day free trial of Vegas Pro and DVDA to see if they suit your proposed working. You may find that Vegas Movie Studio adequate instead of Pro. DVDA comes with both except for Vegas Pro Edit and Movie Studio (Basic version).

https://www.vegascreativesoftware.com/us/

Musicvid wrote on 6/4/2019, 4:45 AM

Magix video software is on t.he consumer side, with Vegas more to the pro side, with lots more capabilities, but not as easy to use.

vkmast wrote on 6/4/2019, 5:22 AM

A small but important addendum to Eric's comment: "You may find that Vegas Movie Studio Platinum [is] adequate instead of Pro."

john-brown wrote on 6/4/2019, 8:25 AM

@Ghost-rider

I suggest that you get Vegas Pro 15 Edit plus DVD Architect and more right away with the 25$ HumbleBundle package. Four hours left to get this.

rraud wrote on 6/4/2019, 9:09 AM

I also want to be able to have 2 or more audio tracks. One being the actual audio recorded by the Gopro and the other a music track and add in. I would want to be able to choose what audio format each track would be, say the primary Gopr audio could be DD/AC3 and the the music 24/96 wav or flac.

Either Vegas Pro or Movie Studio would have more than enough audio tracks for your stated projects. Vegas Pro can have as many as your CPU can handle. As I recall,Movie Studio can have at least 10. The tracks can have stereo and mono events (clips) in many, different formats, sample rates, bit depth, ect. Many folks use VP's audio section instead of ProTools or other DAW. Vegas can also render/encode to most audio formats.. for DVD, BU, the internet, ect., ect. It can also import poly files, if you happen to use a pro multi-channel recorder.

See the Vegas product comparison

Ghost-rider wrote on 6/4/2019, 6:12 PM

1:15 hours will easily fit on a BD25 disc at a very decent bitrate. Using 25Mb average bitrate 2 hours should fit. So you shouldn't need to "shrink" which will degrade as BDRB will need to re-render to reduce the bitrate.

Suggest you download a 30 day free trial of Vegas Pro and DVDA to see if they suit your proposed working. You may find that Vegas Movie Studio adequate instead of Pro. DVDA comes with both except for Vegas Pro Edit and Movie Studio (Basic version).

https://www.vegascreativesoftware.com/us/

Thanks guys I installed a demo of MS 16 and DVD Architect not sure I need all those other programs that installed with it. Looks pretty good although the 2min test burn said the bit rate was to high will figure that out later.

 

vkmast wrote on 6/4/2019, 6:14 PM

If you decide to get a Movie Studio be sure to get the Platinum version.

EricLNZ wrote on 6/4/2019, 7:04 PM

Looks pretty good although the 2min test burn said the bit rate was to high will figure that out later.

Watch out for this "bug" in case that's what you've encountered https://www.vegascreativesoftware.info/us/forum/magix-avc-requires-recompress-in-vegas-dvd-architect--111191/

Scroll down for posts from "mintyslippers" for the simple solution.

Ghost-rider wrote on 6/4/2019, 7:10 PM

If you decide to get a Movie Studio be sure to get the Platinum version.


Yes I did install the Platinum version. Did a test and the audio tracks were mixed together not set up as switchable audio tracks. Also not sure about the high bit rate. I'm importing raw gopro videos and making a blu-ray movie and not messing with anything else. Are there optimal setting that may help? Power DVD 17 would not play the sample BD iso but Media Player 20 did and the video was not that impressive.

Ghost-rider wrote on 6/5/2019, 7:20 AM

I looked through the help yesterday and I don't think having 2 separate audio tracks are possible with the Platinum version. The price is right but ultimately I want to be able to have the 2 tracks. Will Vegas pro do it?

Marco. wrote on 6/5/2019, 7:36 AM

Two separate audio tracks what for? Two mono tracks made of one stereo track? Several ways to go in Movie Studio. It's possible. Explore the context menu when right-clicking the audio event.

Dexcon wrote on 6/5/2019, 7:39 AM

@Ghost-rider

I would want to be able to choose what audio format each track would be, say the primary Gopr audio could be DD/AC3 and the the music 24/96 wav or flac.

AC3 is not listed as an import audio format for Vegas Pro on its product spec page:

Audio: AAC, AIFF, FLAC, LPEC, MP3, OGG, PCA, W64, WAV, WMA

I've tested it, and importing an AC3 track (actually created in VP) ends up crashing VP.

It's important to remember that no matter what [accepted] audio format you import to VP, the final rendered audio format will entirely depend on the single audio format that you've selected in Project Properties/Audio - while it will render with different [accepted] audio formats per track, the final render will result with just the one audio format. While you could render each track with different audio formats and import them into DVDA, even DVDA will require a single audio format for its render to ISO.

BTW, DVDA ISO burns work fine for me in Power DVD 17 and 19.

Ghost-rider wrote on 6/5/2019, 6:06 PM

Two separate audio tracks what for? Two mono tracks made of one stereo track? Several ways to go in Movie Studio. It's possible. Explore the context menu when right-clicking the audio event.

I want to either listen all the ride noises or a music sound track.

Ghost-rider wrote on 6/5/2019, 6:11 PM

@Ghost-rider

I would want to be able to choose what audio format each track would be, say the primary Gopr audio could be DD/AC3 and the the music 24/96 wav or flac.

AC3 is not listed as an import audio format for Vegas Pro on its product spec page:

Audio: AAC, AIFF, FLAC, LPEC, MP3, OGG, PCA, W64, WAV, WMA

I've tested it, and importing an AC3 track (actually created in VP) ends up crashing VP.

It's important to remember that no matter what [accepted] audio format you import to VP, the final rendered audio format will entirely depend on the single audio format that you've selected in Project Properties/Audio - while it will render with different [accepted] audio formats per track, the final render will result with just the one audio format. While you could render each track with different audio formats and import them into DVDA, even DVDA will require a single audio format for its render to ISO.

BTW, DVDA ISO burns work fine for me in Power DVD 17 and 19.


AC3 was more of an example. I would use something on the small side AAC for the Gopro ride audio and 24/96 flac or wav for the music track. So far I don't think Movie studio can embed 2 separate audio tracks.

 

I think my issue with PDVD not playing is the high bit rate created by Movie studio. Haven't figured out how to lower that. Not sure why it would not set it by default when I chose Make BD movie.

wwaag wrote on 6/6/2019, 12:27 AM

@Ghost-rider

Not to be a contrarian, but why do want to create a Blu-Ray disk in the first place? Your source material is 1080 60P. By rendering to BD you will lose quality since the Blu-Ray spec (which DVDA adheres to) does not support that frame rate. You must either render at 1080 60i (interlaced) or 1080 24P which will look absolutely dreadful given your high motion content. To keep 60P, you would have to reduce your frame size to 1280 x 720, again losing quality.

Since most new TV's and even Blu-Ray players support other formats, why not consider something like an MKV container in which you can put almost any type of video stream and multiple audio streams of pretty much any type. While you can't render directly from Vegas to MKV, you can certainly create the streams that can then be placed in an MKV container with readily available open source freeware. With chapter stops, it's an alternative to BD that might be worth considering. Just a suggestion.

@Dexcon

"I've tested it, and importing an AC3 track (actually created in VP) ends up crashing VP."

A very simple trick. Just rename your ac3 file with a vob extension and you can import it into Vegas without issue--even 5.1. You could also use HappyOtterScripts (which uses the same trick), but renaming with a VOB extension is the simplest.

Ghost-rider wrote on 6/6/2019, 5:21 AM

@Ghost-rider

Not to be a contrarian, but why do want to create a Blu-Ray disk in the first place? Your source material is 1080 60P. By rendering to BD you will lose quality since the Blu-Ray spec (which DVDA adheres to) does not support that frame rate. You must either render at 1080 60i (interlaced) or 1080 24P which will look absolutely dreadful given your high motion content. To keep 60P, you would have to reduce your frame size to 1280 x 720, again losing quality.

Since most new TV's and even Blu-Ray players support other formats, why not consider something like an MKV container in which you can put almost any type of video stream and multiple audio streams of pretty much any type. While you can't render directly from Vegas to MKV, you can certainly create the streams that can then be placed in an MKV container with readily available open source freeware. With chapter stops, it's an alternative to BD that might be worth considering. Just a suggestion.

@Dexcon

"I've tested it, and importing an AC3 track (actually created in VP) ends up crashing VP."

A very simple trick. Just rename your ac3 file with a vob extension and you can import it into Vegas without issue--even 5.1. You could also use HappyOtterScripts (which uses the same trick), but renaming with a VOB extension is the simplest.

Thanks for your suggestion. I guess I want a BD format is because I want to be able to give a 25g disc to someone and they can easily put it up on their big screen. Can a MKV format have the same quality of the raw video and the multiple audio tracks?

rraud wrote on 6/6/2019, 7:27 AM

It depends.... An MKV (Matroska Multimedia Container) is a container like MP4 or MXF. Quality would depend on the codec and bit rate. Many can encode 'multichannel' sound.. (5:1 or 7:1 for instance), The MXF (Material Exchange Format) can have multiple PCM audio files.. if the audio tracks are unmixed, ISOs for instance

petecarney wrote on 6/6/2019, 8:42 AM

Not to be a negative nanny or anything, but NO ONE will ever want to watch and hour long ride. I went down the exact road you are researching about 8 years ago. Put BD burner in my first gen i7 machine and got exactly one person to ever put one in a blu-ray player. Now days no one even owns one.

 

The best gift you can give your friends and yourself from your rides is to edit it down to one or two songs. Cut it up to the highlights of each ride and blend the audio in an out from the gopro and music track with 'insert audio envelope - volume' to which ever is more pertinent at the time. Then put it on youtube. Years later they will be asking for the links to watch it again. You keep the original and final mp4's on external hard drives, but from there if you can get anyone else to watch anything on a phone or tablet much less a big screen you're lucky.

 

Movie Studio Platinum is a fantastic tool for doing this and creates great quality video and audio for your projects.

 

Again sorry for raining on your parade, but even your very best friends who are in the video have a hard time getting into it as a general rule.

 

Cheers, Pete

wwaag wrote on 6/6/2019, 10:45 AM

@Ghost-rider

"Can a MKV format have the same quality of the raw video and the multiple audio tracks?"

Anytime you render a video, you lose some quality. If you need to absolutely keep the video quality the same, then look for an editor that does smart rendering such as TMPGEnc's MPEG Smart Renderer http://tmpgenc.pegasys-inc.com/en/product/tmsr5.html. Whereas editors such as Vegas render the entire video after editing, these editors only render at edit points and "copy" the other parts. For simple cuts only editing, these work fine.

@petecarney

+1 I've got a whole stack of DVD's and a few BD's that have been gathering dust since their first play.

john_dennis wrote on 6/6/2019, 11:57 AM

"I've got a whole stack of DVD's and a few BD's that have been gathering dust since their first play."

"I keep mine in storage containers so the containers gather the dust." he said as he burned a two Blu-ray, two DVD set to deliver to others so they could gather dust in their home. 

Ghost-rider wrote on 6/6/2019, 8:53 PM

Not to be a negative nanny or anything, but NO ONE will ever want to watch and hour long ride. I went down the exact road you are researching about 8 years ago. Put BD burner in my first gen i7 machine and got exactly one person to ever put one in a blu-ray player. Now days no one even owns one.

 

The best gift you can give your friends and yourself from your rides is to edit it down to one or two songs. Cut it up to the highlights of each ride and blend the audio in an out from the gopro and music track with 'insert audio envelope - volume' to which ever is more pertinent at the time. Then put it on youtube. Years later they will be asking for the links to watch it again. You keep the original and final mp4's on external hard drives, but from there if you can get anyone else to watch anything on a phone or tablet much less a big screen you're lucky.

 

Movie Studio Platinum is a fantastic tool for doing this and creates great quality video and audio for your projects.

 

Again sorry for raining on your parade, but even your very best friends who are in the video have a hard time getting into it as a general rule.

 

Cheers, Pete

Yea I know mostly the videos are for me and I'm figuring out how to best do this. I know nobody will watch more than a couple of time and then it's in the trash. Chapter points are good for skipping around. A friend of mine got hurt and can't ride but he likes to watch them well at least the one I made with him in front. That's also when I put a 24/96 needle drop of Frank Zappa Shut up and Play Your Guitar a 3 record box set it was 1:46 hours and was perfect by chance just a minute or so longer than the ride. I thought about it and years from now I may want to watch when I can't ride any more. The videos will be like the hours of work I put into making needle drops of vinyl, worthless everybody but me.

So far the 2 min sample was not as good as the software I have been using in terms of video quality "Videopad" Perhaps the settings could be better tweaked?

For the price MSP may be getting even if it won't do the multiple audio tracks.

 

Ghost-rider wrote on 6/8/2019, 3:08 PM

OK it looks like there is no way to have the multiple audio tracks in Studio Platinum. Can it be done in Vegas Pro? I saw where I could install the full program paid on a monthly basis and could cancel within two weeks if I won't work the way I want it. If it does work I would probably cancel it and just get the $299 version.

Also it would be nice if I could call a technical specialist to discuss how exactly to set up the process I'm trying to run. Somebody that could walk me through the setup the 1st time. Is there a number I could call?

john_dennis wrote on 6/8/2019, 9:23 PM

You want to make your DVDs and/or Blu-rays in DVD Architect. Render video and multiple audio streams from Vegas or any program capable of creating compliant video and audio separate elementary streams and those streams will pass through DVD Architect like a hot knife through butter.

Robbie wrote on 6/8/2019, 9:46 PM

@Ghost-rider wrote: OK it looks like there is no way to have the multiple audio tracks in Studio Platinum. Can it be done in Vegas Pro? I saw where I could install the full program paid on a monthly basis and could cancel within two weeks if I won't work the way I want it. If it does work I would probably cancel it and just get the $299 version.

If you want to create a BRD with multiple selectable audio tracks that is done in the Authoring Software and not in the editing program.  DVD Architect (DVDA) can do this – check the Help files “Adding Audio tracks” – and can accept a range of audio formats but some will need to be re-encoded to a BRD compliant format.    Movie Studio Platinum (MSP) comes with DVDA and is well priced with an extra discount to US$59.99 for at least the next couple of days.

As others have suggested its probably best if you render to the right format and size directly from MSP rather than applying a second compression with something like BDRB.  However, DVD Architect also has the ability to re-encode files for the intended media if necessary.

Cheers, Robbie